My position on the "Sith"

While the idea of malevolent Darksiders is purely fiction, and the idea of the Sith comes from that same fiction, I simply cannot truly see any existing Darkside Order as being Sith. A true creation of a Sith Order, in my opinion at least, would consist of a doctrine that is purely in opposition to Jediism. That is if we are to assume that such an order intends to take inspiration from SW as Jediism has.

While there are orders that call themselves sith, I usually refer to them as Darksiders, simply because of the aesthetics, and ideas that come to mind when I think of the Sith themselves. For someone to truly succumb to the Darkside, and to know of the Force, Chi, whatever you personally call that which exists in all things, I would imagine that they would embody the opposite of what Jediism supports. They would be nearly "demonic" in their thinking. I can hardly imagine any such person bothering to create a Force order because in my experience such people do not put a lot of stock into mysticism of any kind. They are many times criminals or dictators who focus mostly on physical passion, rarely stretching out to the unseen horizons around them for a less physically tangible understanding of this reality. That said I cannot ever imagine a true Sith Order ever arising in that regard.

I will not however criticize any existing Darkside Order who claims the title of Sith. I wouldn't dream of it in fact. Obviously there are those who have found a way to study the Darkside without becoming "evil" for the lack of a better word. I encourage that study and I am glad that so far no one of any real measure of ability has ever deigned to directly oppose this philosophy, religion, and way of life. There are far more dangerous fanatics of other belief systems after all. If a group of Darksiders wishes to claim that name then who am I to say that they cannot? However I would not consider them to be truly Sith in the way that I understand that Sith. I hope that makes sense. Just as Jediism is clearly inspired by SW, I would imagine that the true Sith would be as well, and that they would model themselves as such. But I do not see someone like the North Korean dictator watching Star Wars and deciding to found the Sith Order in opposition to Jediism. I hope I am getting to you on this. Basically I do not believe that there will ever be a true struggle in terms of dualistic warring between Jediism and Sithism simply because true Sithism will never exist.

I look forward to your thoughts and again these are my personal beliefs. I am more than willing to admit that and to not claim these things as universal facts.

Sithism is a word that I disagree with. Sith should not be a doctrine or religion, but an approach or philosophy. It's also a horrible, horrible joke played on someone with lisp.

There is an Order of the Sith Lords, which I am an apprentice of. It doesn't concentrate on "Sithism" but instead of personal development, self-awareness and understanding. Darkness and other concepts are extolled and people study the things of their choosing. Some, martial arts. Others, magic. I study and specialise in personal interaction.

There is a Dark Aspect of the Force Academy, and most of its members are at the aforementioned Order of the Sith Lords. It is a school of training and personal development. We're more akin to a dark-natured human potential movement. Again, we study our individual specialties, from martials arts and physicality to psychology and more esoteric subjects.

There WAS a Temple of the Sith Order, run by members of this site. I was part of it, and it did embrace the idea of Sithism. It was more orderly than other Dark groups, in fact, would have made more sense as a Dark Jedi Order. A wide array of studies were part of the training course, which was an integral focus on the site.

There is also the Sith Academy. They practice Sithism, and are a self-proclaimed Sith Cult. They study various things, including, but not limited to, political manipulation, NLP, sorcery and other darker arts. They've got organisational goals and have made attacks on this site and others in the past. That is in the past and now both groups are looking to their futures.

There's a few Dark Groups, but they're mostly heavily based on the development of the individual. And as such, any 'warring' between Jedi and Sith will most likely be on an individual basis, and not the result of different Orders having a pissing contest.

Evil isn't Darkness. Darkness isn't evil. That's a common misconception but a key truth. Defining 'sith' and 'darkness' and then applying it on the whole will most likely drive you insane in the process. We just define it for ourselves and don't force that perception on anyone. But as far as modelling ourselves on the lore goes, remember of course that the Sith were designed as antagonists, villains, in a fantasy universe. To simply have a Sith Order being content to play around in its own sandbox in a world of fiction wouldn't make for fun writing.

If you have any questions about the Dark Aspect of the Force Realist community, feel free to ask. There's a few of us around. ^^

Oh yes absolutely! The idea of the Sith was indeed designed to be a powerful organization in opposition to the good guys. I suppose what I am trying to say in a nut shell is that a truly dangerous Sith Order that is truly against Jediism is not something that I would find practical in reality. The groups you mentioned are very public and could not effectively lobby against or take direct action against followers of Jediism. It wouldn't be difficult for police to connect the dots if something illegal took place and I am sure that they would go after the more "aggressive" sites first. Of course I do not believe that such would ever happen.

My point is that in my short experience with all of this I have found that the Darkside and Lightside are simply two sides of the same coin. At this time they do not fight each other but rather exist in harmony. A Sith Order might be an organization that tries to upset that balance in favor of the Darkside. Now that said I am curious as to why Darksiders do not simply call themselves Dark Jedi to distance themselves from the evil archetypes and aesthetics that COULD cause some impressionable people to judge? I suppose that it would be a more accurate term and less.. shall we say defining? You may not consider the Sith to be a belief but before I learned about actual Jediism and Sithism I certainly associated "sith" with "evil."

I suppose that ever since I learned about Darkside-ism I have always wondered about that.

We don't need to add an ism to everything.

I tend to do that for the sake of my own need to classify things as such.

Alaaric Jensen wrote: Now that said I am curious as to why Darksiders do not simply call themselves Dark Jedi to distance themselves from the evil archetypes and aesthetics that COULD cause some impressionable people to judge?

Do you honestly believe that there are no "impressionable people" who judge us if we call ourselves jedi? Light or dark are irrelevant concerns from the point of view of judgement. If you identify yourself with any organization from fiction you are judged.

I can't really discuss the rest of your posts because I don't believe in the dark side, and I don't share your interpretation of what it means to be Sith.

Here is my take on the Jedi/Sith...

I see two extremes of parents in the world...

Some parents, want to dominate every aspect of their childs life... The want to protect that child, make sure there is not pain for them, only good things and feelings...

They do this, by controlling who the child is friends with, where they go, the actions they take...

Is this Evil? No.. Is it right? well, for that parent, yes... For the child? Well, for some children, yes, for others no...

Other parents, dont pay attention to their children... Sorry they fathered, or gave birth to the child...

These parents do not concern themselves with simple things like hygiene for the kids, proper shelter, and guidance...

Between these two, lies most of us...

This is how I see the Jedi/Sith relation...

Sometimes, a "more pure" Jedi will Judge my action Sith...

More often, a Sith will say I'm "too light" to be one of them...

I evolved here...

Once upon a time, I was very much of the darker mindset, would I have called myself a Sith? Yes...

I am my brothers keeper...

Sometimes, I will protect him...

Sometimes, I will let him fall or fail...

Both, to help teach a lesson...

Eventually, a Sith Lord named Darth Bane was responsible for the destruction of all the Sith with the exception of himself and his apprentice, Darth Zannah, and managed to trick the Jedi Council into believing that the Sith were completely gone.[11] He also created the "Rule of Two", which states "Two there shall be ... a master and an apprentice: one to embody power and the other to crave it.

Two, only two. I think those two and only those two should speak for themselves.

I tend to do that for the sake of my own need to classify things as such.

I usually admit this is my greatest flaw.

Very good ideas everyone! Maybe the Darkside truly does not exist at all! If I may ask, if the Darkside does not exist, what exactly is "evil", is there not a force of sorts that embodies that? I do see things in terms of duality but perhaps there is no duality at all. I feel that if there is no Darkside at all then there is simply wisdom and ignorance. The one who is "good" has wisdom and the one who is "evil" is ignorant. Of course that is oversimplifying it.

Alaaric Jensen wrote: For someone to truly succumb to the Darkside, and to know of the Force, Chi, whatever you personally call that which exists in all things, I would imagine that they would embody the opposite of what Jediism supports. They would be nearly "demonic" in their thinking. I can hardly imagine any such person bothering to create a Force order because in my experience such people do not put a lot of stock into mysticism of any kind. They are many times criminals or dictators who focus mostly on physical passion, rarely stretching out to the unseen horizons around them for a less physically tangible understanding of this reality. That said I cannot ever imagine a true Sith Order ever arising in that regard.

Historically there are plenty of examples of serial killers, despots, facist societies- etc (all of whom are as demonic as Mankind gets) who are very active with black mysticism. The Nazis used runes and symbols with very specific intent. That exact example is complicated, there was never a clear or steady relationship with the various Nazi leaders (including Hitler) and different mystical ideas but overall as a phenomenon they feature a great deal throughout the Nazi story.

I have known some demons in my life and while they wouldn't have considered themselves bad people or mystics, they were bad people who deserved to be locked up or something nasty done to them in a back alley. Sure they weren't walking around their homes in black robes but their personal beliefs, whether they were Christian church-goers or apathetic agnostics; their principles were as sick as their behaviour. For me that says a great deal about people that claim Sith or some such spooky path- if you associate and identify with 'social satansim' for long enough it is also going to be expressed in your actions and words. It is not just ammunition for thought, it does affect you. Exposure to anything affects you, but willing exposure to something that has an ethos, a doctrine, a symbolic colour (!) or part of the light spectrum MUST affect you over time.

So sure, many people that call themselves Sith might not be in any danger of becoming the next President of the USA and bringing the planet into a new age of human darkness, but generally speaking if they identify themselves as Sith- you can't assume that they have as pleasant an intention as a Jedi. Of course, you should never take for granted someone's online identity anyway, but let's be realistic and honest about this, if you want to be 'Sith' you aren't identifying with Darth Sidious's generosity with cookies and cupcakes.

Now you can easily say that you get Christians that are bad people too. My point is that when you read the principles of the Sith followers they aren't nice. If they have bad principles whether they support them with Star Wars or with the Bible, I don't tend to trust those people with my children.

I am not sure who all is reading this topic but I would like to add something else. Over the past few days I have been looking at other sites to get the full story. I made an account at Sithacademy.com. I know some of you are chuckling and you have every right to. I wanted to begin their course and see how it resonated. Granted they appear to be at best mad and at worst dangerous but I was curious about the extreme end of the Darkside aspect. Needless to say I cannot see myself staying there. I am ready to admit that I have been flawed in my stance concerning the Sith and the Darkside. There really are Sith Orders who are very violent in nature and who do seek to emulate or even carry out a malicious agenda. I do not want to say who I was on that site or what I talked with them about but just know that I do not agree with them or their ideals. I understand now that there are people of all stripes who study the Force and the Sith alone are as varied as a rainbow. In any case the Sith at sith academy are very cliche' and I am not sure how they think they can do anything they said they are going to do.

In the mean time I am going to keep learning about other Force groups and remain here as well. Coming back here to post is truly a breath of fresh air compared to the other site and I am glad not to be going back there again. I must have posted all of six or seven times there before I couldn't take any more.

It seems to be all about passion for the Sith, so a definition of passion needs to be sort which allows for Jedi and Sith. I made up this;

Tier 3:
. feeling (physical sensation)
. thought (conscious thought)

Tier 2:
. emotion (strong feeling incorporating subconscious decision making - subconscious thought emerging into consciousness as feelings or ideas)

Tier 2 Types?:
. loss/sadness (strong emotion feeling aspects of sacrifice).
. anxiety/fear (strong emotion thinking about aspects of sacrifice).

Tier 1;
. passion (strong emotion integrating aspects of self-sacrifice)

... to achieve that. Note Passion involves a large extent of subconscious decision making. I tend to assume subconscious decision making is inherently selfish, at least a lot of it would be.

Given its been shown that the subconscious processes thought before it reaches conscious awareness... my thoughts are that a Sith approach to awareness constitutes a fundamental point in the emergence of conscious thought from the subconscious and I train to fixate it at the junction of 3 independent attributes. This aligns with the Jedi Pillars but the difference is the Jedi approach is deterministic association (the 3 Pillars) versus a Sith one of homogenesis association as part of a dedicated pursuit of a relationship into the subconscious for greater awareness and 'power'.

The downside with this approach is a resultant focus on the self and unwanted empowerment of subconscious decision making. I call actualization of that downside as not a fall to the dark side, but a fall from the dark side. As while it could be argued that in my theory both a Jedi and Sith would suffer the same behavioral risks (with the Sith being more likely to fall earlier), I find it a shame to discard the culture and symbology of the fictional Sith as simply the insane, out of control and deluded Force user. Instead I have compartmentalized the approach to what I consider Force awareness into the most suitable package for the Star Wars mythos while avoiding the overt antagonistic nature they were/are portrayed with.

Alaaric Jensen wrote: Very good ideas everyone! Maybe the Darkside truly does not exist at all! If I may ask, if the Darkside does not exist, what exactly is "evil", is there not a force of sorts that embodies that?

I can see "evil" and "the darkside" as interchangeable terms...and moreso because there is no "darkside".

Alaaric Jensen wrote: I do see things in terms of duality but perhaps there is no duality at all.

Dualistic thought is our first attempt to understand our universe. Part of how we understand a thing is thru its opposite. To stop with dualism, however, is flawed thinking as there are no true opposites. There are no such things as good and evil, right and wrong. If you examine closely enough you will find that even such concepts as wisdom and ignorance fall away as a descriptive dichotomy with which to define the universe.

Alaaric Jensen wrote: I feel that if there is no Darkside at all then there is simply wisdom and ignorance. The one who is "good" has wisdom and the one who is "evil" is ignorant. Of course that is oversimplifying it.

You are, of course, free to believe and think whatever you choose. Please don't commit the "christian error" of thinking that you will ever be "finished", though. There is no ultimate ending to evolution of any kind, including and especially spiritual evolution. The greatest error anyone can commit is to believe that they have discovered an "ultimate truth" which makes them "right" and everyone else "wrong" and now that they know this truth, they can sit back on their laurels and stop evolving, after all...once you know the truth what more is there to search for and once you have become right, how much more right is there to be? Codification and dualistic thought are dangerous roads to travel.

Iron Wings wrote: For me that says a great deal about people that claim Sith or some such spooky path- if you associate and identify with 'social satansim' for long enough it is also going to be expressed in your actions and words. It is not just ammunition for thought, it does affect you. Exposure to anything affects you, but willing exposure to something that has an ethos, a doctrine, a symbolic colour (!) or part of the light spectrum MUST affect you over time.

"If you dance with the devil, the devil don't change. The devil changes you."

- Max California - 8mm (movie)

Williamkaede wrote: We don't need to add an ism to everything.

"ism" means the thought of, we think about everything and we condemn those who don't think

so it's kinda expected

not that I agree with it, but there is a reason

In my eyes there is a darkside and a lightside of the force. This isn't to say however that the darkside is evil and the lightside is good. I feel that to truly understand the force you must know both the darkside and the lightside and find balance within the spectrum. Walking into a pitch black room is disturbing, but so is walking into a room of blinding white light. An excess of light can be just as misleading as an excess of dark. In conclusion the opposite of Jedi (Sith if that is what your definition of sith is) would simply be one who goes to the extreme of one side of the force because he/she knows not of the other side. It would be a lack of balance. There is a yin and yang, ebb and flow, potential and kinetic, and lightside and darkside. Only from the merger of two of these things can true beauty and understanding be found.

Remember: Good and Evil are subject to societal / cultural perspectives. What's good in one society is evil in another.
My position on Sith is it's about passion (love & hate). "Peace is a lie, there is only passion."

Yes, I realize this is total thread necromancy but I had to put in my two cents.

I see The Force as a personification of the flow of energy within our universe. Thus, when we use said energy we make the energy positive or negative according to our actions. When that energy from our actions is directed at another living being, that energy is felt. Even if an action is not pulled through, the intention's energy still hangs in the air. However, the infinite flow of this energy is not solely negative or positive fighting against one another. I believe that there is a neutral energy. I believe neutral energy is the most productive part of us in terms of practicality and efficiency. As positive is giving, nurturing, and creative; negative energy is destructive, chaotic, and seizing. I believe neutral energy, which is the core of the first two has the necessary traits that make all basic life possible.

My belief in short on "Sithism" as it were; It exists, it is the practice of using negative energy to one's advantage. As "Jediism" is the practice of using positive energy to restore what negative energy destroys. Note though, that each system is merely focused on the said energy types instead of dedicated to them.

Williamkaede wrote: We don't need to add an ism to everything.