Astrology and Horroscopes

(Hoping this thread is placed in the right board. lol)

I was wondering what everyone's views of this topic was. I know as a Christian, I was always taught to stay clear of both, that it is the work of the devil. However, I have seen some cases of where things are accurately predicted using the stars, and I must admit looking at the character traits of the zodiac, are pretty accurate. I am also a man of fact, science, and history, so this topic is a warring debate within myself.

I was never taught that they were evil in the church I grew up in. Hm. I find them amusing. The Daily horoscopes in the paper are written by beginning journalists but I do enjoy talking and learning about the signs and personality meanings of the zodiacs and blood types.

I'm a Taurus. I'm stubborn. I'm a rat, I'm creative.

They don't fit everyone, I personally find them more fun than a use of reference but my mother puts great stock in them. Was the first thing she looked up when I told her I was pregnant lol.

What's scary to me is an article came out a few months ago that stated a scary amount of Americans believe astrology is a real science.

Kamizu wrote: What's scary to me is an article came out a few months ago that stated a scary amount of Americans believe astrology is a real science.

Astrology is inteesting and thought provoking. I wouldn't call it scary but "I" wouldn't call it science either. If it helps people have a comfort level understanding themselves and the world why not?

I'm a Libra obviously. :laugh:

RF were you educated by penguins?

Kamizu wrote: I was never taught that they were evil in the church I grew up in. Hm. I find them amusing. The Daily horoscopes in the paper are written by beginning journalists but I do enjoy talking and learning about the signs and personality meanings of the zodiacs and blood types.

I'm a Taurus. I'm stubborn. I'm a rat, I'm creative.

They don't fit everyone, I personally find them more fun than a use of reference but my mother puts great stock in them. Was the first thing she looked up when I told her I was pregnant lol.

What's scary to me is an article came out a few months ago that stated a scary amount of Americans believe astrology is a real science.

I think I may know the article you are talking about. That is what got my interest in it, to learn more about it.

Rickie, not sure what you mean with the penguin comment. However, I never said I agreed with those particular views. If I did, why would I be post about this subject or doing research at all? Haha.

Rickie The Grey wrote:

Kamizu wrote: What's scary to me is an article came out a few months ago that stated a scary amount of Americans believe astrology is a real science.

Astrology is inteesting and thought provoking. I wouldn't call it scary but "I" wouldn't call it science either.

I don't think it's scary in itself haha. I think what's scary is how many people believe it is a science rather than a ... belief system? Sorry I haven't been sleeping well and I've lost a lot of my vocabulary lol.

Let me see if I can find that article. I'm sure they have better words lol

This isn't the one I read but it had the stats in it.

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2014/02/11/Majority-of-young-adults-think-astrology-is-a-science/5201392135954/

The religion I was in thought astrology and horoscopes were the work of demons.. It's a pretty common theme.
I tend to think that the predictions in newspapers are vague enougth for anyone to see something for themselves in it.
But I think it's interesting to look into.

Rickie, not sure what you mean with the penguin comment

Being taught by Nuns in their traditional black and white robes.

That expression was quite common when I was in Catholic School.

Rickie The Grey wrote:

Rickie, not sure what you mean with the penguin comment

Being taught by Nuns in their traditional black and white robes.

That expression was quite common when I was in Catholic School.

Ah, I was never in Catholic School, however I was raised Catholic. Never heard of that expression before. Lol

I am someone who tends to stick with the pervading scientific opinion on matters. The scientific opinion on Astrology and Horoscopes are that they are absolutely unscientific nonsense.

They work by being vague enough that circumstances will always meet them when you interpret the situation loosely.

Consider that if astrology and horoscopes really did work surely someone would have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Afterall these practices have been around for an incredibly long time, and they are performed by many many people. Surely one of those people would have proven that they work in a scientifically controlled environment. If they have not been proven to make accurate and reliable predictions then the only conclusion one can draw is that they do not produce accurate or reliable predictions.

They leave enough ambiguity in their predictions to seem as though they work most of the time while relying on people's confirmation bias to seem as though they are more accurate than they really are.

"Confirmation bias" is the tendency for people to remember only the things that meet their expectations while forgetting or underestimating the amount of times something does not meet their expectations.

Don't forget also that every prediction that's ambiguous enough can be shown to be right metaphorically or when interpreted to a great enough extent.

The word you're looking for is unfalsifiable

For something that claims for itself to be about and only about predicting things astrology does an impressive job of not being able to predict anything with accuracy that would remain unaccounted for by chance. The good astrologist also tries to make his prediction so vague that just about anything would meet it and nothing would possibly ever falsify it - which is what makes it so unscientific.
However, unscientific does not mean false, I hear the philosophers shout.
True. But then it is also unbelievable for the same reason. About the same circumstances and the same person two different horoscopes concerning the same date may be miles apart unless you twist the interpretation for both to meet somewhere in the middle - and that's no way of looking into the future. It is instead a way of interpreting the past to make-believe.

Here is my argument against astrology:

Premise 1:
If astrology worked, we would expect it to produce predictions born of a described or undescribed mechanism linking the stars to human affairs. We would expect the predictions to be largely similar across the sources and either consistent or inconsistent with the true outcome of events to a statistically significant degree.
Premise 2:
Predictions vary vastly and without pattern across sources but show repititions throughout cosmically short time. The predictions made are either untestable or yield an accuracy rate that is statistically negligible to the point where it is indistinguishable from random guesses about future events.
Conclusion:
Therefore, astrology does not work.

Each of us has gifts; things we are naturally good at. Some people seem to be very in tune with the cosmic energies of the universe and happen to be very good at prognostication and some make good counselors and advisors.

If I were to prognosticate something for you using the art of numerology it would be as worthless as if a robot attempted explaining emotion. If you receive a premonition from a soothsayer and we try to interpret it literally we will often become disappointed as the premonition is based off images, colors and feelings and not facts and empirical references.

Often times, this lack of specific information, or vagueness, leads skeptics to believe there is no credibility to it all. When all the time, truth is in perception.

Astrology was originally used to tell the peoples when to plant, harvest and move. And with our understanding of the movement of the heavens and the observations we see in mankind they made other connections.

All I’m saying is don’t be too hasty to dismiss something that has been around as long as the world’s oldest profession.


PS. Scorpio born in the year of the Dragon

Rather like religion or mythology, it serves as tool which encourages people to think conceptually about (and mythologise) their own lives, with the usual varied results.

Like religion or alternative medicine, I'm not against it per se, but I am against those who use it to exploit vulnerable people, ordinarily for unreasonable financial gain. Beyond that, if it provides a little comfort like any other fiction, great. Why not? I'm not aware that any wars have been fought over matters of astrology recently.

tzb wrote: Like religion or alternative medicine, I'm not against it per se, but I am against those who use it to exploit vulnerable people, ordinarily for unreasonable financial gain.

I would think that all Jedi are "against" the exploitation of any person by anyone.

Agreed. My point was that rather than being totally cool with it, my opinion is tempered by the fact astrology is sometimes used as a tool to leverage money out of desperate people, just like religion or alternative medicine.

tzb wrote: I'm not aware that any wars have been fought over matters of astrology recently.

Kind of related: Hitler used astrology to try and predict which strategic choices would be the best.

http://www.astrology.co.uk/news/worldwar2.htm

And we won! That's an argument in favour if you ask me

The Old Farmer's Almanac is a reference book that contains weather forecasts, tide tables, planting charts, astronomical data, recipes, and articles on a number of topics, including gardening, sports, astronomy, and farming. The book also features anecdotes and a section that predicts trends in fashion, food, home décor, technology, and living for the coming year.

Astronomy has nothing to do with astrology except they both include planets.

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/whats-difference-astrology-vs-astronomy/

I guess I forgot to add that it also has astrology in it; part of the ‘living for the coming year’ section.
Sorry. :blush:

But astrology is a more modern astronomy, where the study of the planets and their effect on people and people’s lives are correlated.

I was attempting to show some of the roots of modern astrology and how astronomy has played a part in our lives throughout history.

Well, I guess it depends on how one chooses to look at it…

‘Astrology’ was around before astronomy. But the role of astrology was considered a scholarly tradition as astronomy is now. It was accepted in political and academic contexts, and was connected with other studies, such as astronomy, alchemy, meteorology, and medicine. At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy and physics called astrology into question.

Astrology has been dated to at least the 2nd millennium BCE, with roots in calendrical systems used to predict seasonal shifts and to interpret celestial cycles as signs. Which is what more modern ‘astronomy’ is used for now.

As we have seen in other threads, words do have meaning, and over time that meaning does change.