Definition of Christianity.

Words are so interchangeable the root word Church means gathering, you know that there are 200 ways to say love and hate they all mean the same thing in no matter how you spell it or speak it, it also depends on the user and there experience.
Tomato, tamato it is still the same food used in many ways, temple / church are interchangeable depending on your up bringing and both are valid for this place of worship and gathering which is what we do here and I'm sure that no one here makes sacrifices except sleep to keep up with the time zones in the IM-ing each other.

Mojiimoto - Jedi Padawan

You see, thats part of the problem, people come here to worship. What would a Jedi worship? The Force? I don't think so. So why come here to worship? I have no problem with people being any religion they want to, but if you want to worship God, Budda, Muhammed or whoever, that should be done at a church created for that purpose, or at home. Not in a Temple created for the development of the Jedi way of life, phylophy, and even for a Jediism spiritual journey. To me, that would be equivalent to going into a Muslim shrine and kneeling to pray to God, or going into a Catholic church and sitting on the floor or a pillow and begin chanting to begin your buddist meditation. Would either of those make sense? Not to me. I'm in no way saying that people should hide what they believe and so forth, but as far as discussion goes it should be directed more toward Jedi and Jediism.

DK

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

You see, thats part of the problem, people come here to worship. What would a Jedi worship? The Force? I don't think so. So why come here to worship? I have no problem with people being any religion they want to, but if you want to worship God, Budda, Muhammed or whoever, that should be done at a church created for that purpose, or at home. Not in a Temple created for the development of the Jedi way of life, phylophy, and even for a Jediism spiritual journey. To me, that would be equivalent to going into a Muslim shrine and kneeling to pray to God, or going into a Catholic church and sitting on the floor or a pillow and begin chanting to begin your buddist meditation. Would either of those make sense? Not to me. I'm in no way saying that people should hide what they believe and so forth, but as far as discussion goes it should be directed more toward Jedi and Jediism.

DK

Exactly, YOU don't think so. Many others do however think so and are more than welcome to do so. This is a a Jedi Church to be sure but Jediism is an interfaith religion, syncretistic in its form. That is what makes Jediism so great! You are more then welcome to feel the way you do. and it is that freedom in faith that strengthens our unity.

\"Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
Date: before 12th century
1chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>\"
-Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

According to this there would be no reason not to be able to worship the Force.

Br.Dhagon, I thought a lot about what you said. Could we not consider Jediism as say a type of common lanuage we all speak here, and Christianity/Buddhism/Islam/Wiccan... as the (cultural) dialect in whic each individual Jedi speaks?

Jon wrote:

\"Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
Date: before 12th century
1chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>\"
-Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

According to this there would be no reason not to be able to worship the Force.

Br.Dhagon, I thought a lot about what you said. Could we not consider Jediism as say a type of common lanuage we all speak here, and Christianity/Buddhism/Islam/Wiccan... as the (cultural) dialect in whic each individual Jedi speaks?

I Love it Hans...Dead On!

Please explain to me what there could possibly be to worship of the Force. I'm not talking about Christians who see the Force as the same thing as the Holy Spirit. I'm talking about the non-deity, part of everyone, everyone a part of, envelops and penetrates us all Force. What is there to worship?

DK

Here, before anyone replies to my last post, let me offer this. After a moment of \"different\" clarity after taking my pain meds (percocet). That if everyone lived thier life according to common sense, it wouldn't matter what religion you were, you would already be welcome into whatever after life you believe in. Think about it, common sense is that you shouldn't kill someone, you shouldn't take something that is not already yours without paying, to include someones spouse. You should be truthfull, whereas the only reason to tell a fib would be where it could hurt someone to know the truth (i.e. does this make me look fat?) You do all you can to take care of yourself and your family without help from others, unless necessary. If necessary help out others who absolutely need it. That sort of thing. Even if you are not taught these things at a young age, it is common sense for the most part. If everyone kept to themselves about personal morals/religious views we wouldn't have half the problems in this world.

DK

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

Please explain to me what there could possibly be to worship of the Force. I'm not talking about Christians who see the Force as the same thing as the Holy Spirit. I'm talking about the non-deity, part of everyone, everyone a part of, envelops and penetrates us all Force. What is there to worship?

DK

Hey Br.Dhagon you answered your own question....

\"I'm talking about the non-deity, part of everyone, everyone a part of, envelops and penetrates us all Force.\"

What could not be more understandable than to reverence that which keeps us alive? Life itself!

I still see no reason to worship it. Life Is. Thats all, if you worshipped life, you'd have to worship everything that lives, that could be time consuming don't you think?

\"Worship\" may mean different things to different people?

I cannot \"worship\" the Force, or consider being a Jedi as part of a religion. But that is from my perspective.

As a Quaker - we do not \"Worship\" God - but listen to hear what we sense is the message of the almighty. (Quakers do not have icons of any kind including the cross - in fact - you do not have to be Christian to be Quaker but most are also Christian.)

Not having the experience of some of the Christians here and in particular Catholics - with their strong visual service and use of symbols - I may not be able to understand the depth of the word or from what angle a Catholic may understand \"worship\".

As an Episcopalian - and in those services - I did see \"worship\" more as \"respect\" and \"obedience\" to the Bible which was the word of God.

So my viewpoint on Christianity is that I can equate the ideals with the symbolism and also acknowledge the limitations that I find in the Christian methodology of religion/worship???

But I do not have the full experience - only mine.

According to the dictionary definition of worship which I posted earlier even simple reverence/respect is a form of worship. Worship does not have to be conditioned by complicated rituals or having some kind of object or image.

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

I still see no reason to worship it. Life Is. Thats all, if you worshipped life, you'd have to worship everything that lives, that could be time consuming don't you think?

I don`t know about the time thing, but I personally I manage to fit it in every minute of the day by trying to love (reverence/respect) everything I meet in daily life.

Sweet, so by the dictionary definition of \"worship\". All people, even Christians break the commandment \"worship on others, no idols\" (paraprasing) because by simply respecting say, one of your parents, you worship them. Thats a sin! By respecting the pastor of your church, you are worshiping him, or the president (not that most like or respect him). I respect you Br. Hans, but in no way do I or would I worship you. Text book definitions hold little weight to me, many times, this is definately one of them. I'm pretty sure that most Christians would even agree they don't like that definition, concidering what it would imply.

Though I don't Love much, and don't try to love everything, I do agree, I respect most life as it is given in general sense, but I do not respect all that live, because I believe that many give up their rights by committing certain crimes or by committing other less hanous crimes repeatedly, and anyone who attempts to harm myself or my family. My family of course consists of my wife, kids, parents, siblings, so on, and my brothers and sisters in arms.

DK

Whoops, should proof read before submitting, that line should read...
\"worship no others, and no idols\" still paraprasing.

DK

Well Br.Dhagon this is where we part our ways, i do respect and try to love all life. Including criminals. But then again, each to his own.

Lol, now back onto our topic of worship. Now if we did not have a defining point of reference such as a dictionary then the chores of discussion would be considerably more difficult. But there are people who like to make life more difficult.

Now lets look at the words Worship and Respect. Worship in relation to Respect has a much narrower sense. Someone who worships actomatically is respectfull. Someone who is respectfull does not necessarily worship. This solves your problem of idolatry in Christianity.

Dhagon Krayt - this Jedi site is of a \"religious\" nature. It is founded as that, and although you and I may not understand - does it matter?

(I suspect you did not grow-up in this sort of church environment.)

I am known here as a \"secularist\" and have been welcomed and treated as a sister. I am also allowed my \"securlar\" point of view which tells me this is a good place - and moreover - a Jedi place.

There may be some things done here I do not feel are mainstream Jedi, or even possibly Jedi at all, but I also see this site helping others.

Secularists and Christians, etc., can all prosletyze - but Jedi do not. I know this is a lesson I recently had to learn?

We can also question - and discuss - and it's that to the benefit of all?

But realize the nature of this site. It is based on very religious/church ideals. As Jedi we must respect and allow for all...especially if they do good. (If they do harm - well - that is a different story of course!)

This weekend at Jedi Sanctuary this very discussion is occuring. It is also a ULC church - but it likewise has a different view . They believe Jediism is a spirituality - for the most part. We can all HAVE spiritualities where as we ARE our religions.

(I AM Buddhist, I AM Christian, I AM Moslem etc. or I FOLLOW Jediism, or I FOLLOW Buddhism, or I FOLLOW Christianity.) This particular site and others believe they ARE Jedi. They take that to mean it is a religious calling.

I choose to have no religion. But I do have many spiritualities?

As a Jedi, I see it as an active body/spirit/mind pursuit through training. I feel I find some of my training here at TOTJO because of the philosophical conversations...and spiritual entity?

...The question is not right or wrong...for them...but for we as individual Jedi? For me the answer is I see good here. It is good because it is tolerant - and being tolerant - I see it follows the Jedi Path.

(Did I make sense?)

-Asta Sophi

Asta Sophi wrote:

Dhagon Krayt - this Jedi site is of a \"religious\" nature. It is founded as that, and although you and I may not understand - does it matter?

(I suspect you did not grow-up in this sort of church environment.)

I am known here as a \"secularist\" and have been welcomed and treated as a sister. I am also allowed my \"securlar\" point of view which tells me this is a good place - and moreover - a Jedi place.

There may be some things done here I do not feel are mainstream Jedi, or even possibly Jedi at all, but I also see this site helping others.

Secularists and Christians, etc., can all prosletyze - but Jedi do not. I know this is a lesson I recently had to learn?

We can also question - and discuss - and it's that to the benefit of all?

But realize the nature of this site. It is based on very religious/church ideals. As Jedi we must respect and allow for all...especially if they do good. (If they do harm - well - that is a different story of course!)

This weekend at Jedi Sanctuary this very discussion is occuring. It is also a ULC church - but it likewise has a different view . They believe Jediism is a spirituality - for the most part. We can all HAVE spiritualities where as we ARE our religions.

(I AM Buddhist, I AM Christian, I AM Moslem etc. or I FOLLOW Jediism, or I FOLLOW Buddhism, or I FOLLOW Christianity.) This particular site and others believe they ARE Jedi. They take that to mean it is a religious calling.

I choose to have no religion. But I do have many spiritualities?

As a Jedi, I see it as an active body/spirit/mind pursuit through training. I feel I find some of my training here at TOTJO because of the philosophical conversations...and spiritual entity?

...The question is not right or wrong...for them...but for we as individual Jedi? For me the answer is I see good here. It is good because it is tolerant - and being tolerant - I see it follows the Jedi Path.

(Did I make sense?)

-Asta Sophi

Absolutely

Drat! Wish I could edit..lol

Worship is believing the Force to be honored, as higher than. Respect is the same?

I felt those things as a Christian towards God/Jesus but not as a Jedi towards the Force.

That said - tolerance is an act of love. In love, we do honor as not higher - but to rejoice! -to paraphrase Aristotle.

To love the Force is to love - for the Force is of all things (to me).

The mystery is deep and wide...I don't think I'm for it today lol...but I hope that helps in the conversation (I'm at work - sorry.)

- Asta Sophi

Asta Sophi wrote:

Drat! Wish I could edit..lol

Worship is believing the Force to be honored, as higher than. Respect is the same?

I felt those things as a Christian towards God/Jesus but not as a Jedi towards the Force.

That said - tolerance is an act of love. In love, we do honor as not higher - but to rejoice! -to paraphrase Aristotle.

To love the Force is to love - for the Force is of all things (to me).

The mystery is deep and wide...I don't think I'm for it today lol...but I hope that helps in the conversation (I'm at work - sorry.)

- Asta Sophi

16.10. Jedi believe in destiny and trust in the will of the Force. We accept the fact that what seems to be random events are not random at all, but the design of the Force. Each living creature has a purpose, understanding that purpose comes with a deep awareness of the Force. Even things that happen which seem negative have a purpose, though that purpose is not easy to see.

...indeed the Force is something greater to be respected, loved and reveared. Just as a Christian might for God.

For some....yes...they feel the Force is like God.

For many the Force is not...and cannot be worshipped as such.

Tolerance is the answer.


-Asta