Discussion: \"undercover\" faith practices

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Discussion: \"undercover\" faith practices.

The following article was published recently in a British newspaper and deals with the report that a considerable amount of meat sold in British supermarkets is labelled as halal and is not being labelled as such. Please read all of the article - as a Jedi, find out the facts, consider the arguments for and against, and offer your own wisdom on the subject. It must be stated that the newspaper is quite right-wing in its outlook and therefore approaches the topic in a more inflammatory way than is perhaps useful but at least it raises an intriguing point for discussion.



Top supermarkets secretly sell halal: Sainsbury's, Tesco, Waitrose, and M&S don't tell us meat is ritually slaughtered

Britain's biggest supermarket chains are selling halal lamb and chicken without telling unsuspecting shoppers.

Those stocking meat slaughtered according to Islamic law include Waitrose, Marks & Spencer, Sainsbury’s, Tesco, Somerfield and the Co-op.

And a Mail on Sunday investigation has found that fast-food chains including Domino’s Pizza, Pizza Hut, KFC, ­Nando’s and Subway are also using halal meat without ­telling customers.

But the UK’s second-biggest supermarket, Asda, has refused to confirm or deny whether it sells halal meat.

The Mail on Sunday contacted Asda on Tuesday, but by yesterday it had failed to answer any of our questions.

Initially, Waitrose, Sainsbury’s and Tesco were reluctant to admit they sold halal meat. But later they confessed to selling Islamically slaughtered lamb. Tesco also admitted selling some halal chicken without labelling it as such.

Most lamb imported from New Zealand by British supermarkets has been slaughtered according to Muslim law, but this is not mentioned on packaging. Some lamb from British abattoirs is also halal.

Last night, Agriculture Minister Jim Paice said: ‘People should know what they’re buying in the shops or when they’re eating out and I will be discussing with the food industry the role labelling can play in giving consumers a choice.’

The supermarkets and fast-food outlets said they did not feel the need to tell customers that meat is halal because the slaughter conformed to Western standards, with animals stunned before being killed.

But the RSPCA has raised concerns about the way chicken is killed in Islamic abattoirs because the birds are stunned with a weaker electric current, which does not guarantee unconsciousness during slaughter.
Our enquiries have found that ­Subway uses some Islamically slaughtered chicken that has not been stunned.

Non-Muslim religious leaders say that Christians, Hindus or Sikhs may find it offensive to eat meat slaughtered according to Islamic ritual. Jews are unlikely to be exposed to such meat because they eat kosher, or animals slaughtered according to Jewish law.

Last week The Mail on Sunday revealed how halal food was being served to unsuspecting people in hospitals, schools and pubs across the UK.

The country’s biggest hotel and restaurant group, Whitbread– which owns the Beefeater and Brewers Fayre chains – was also selling halal food, as were well-known sporting venues such as Ascot, Twicken­ham and Wembley.

Under Islamic law, an animal must be slaughtered by having its throat cut while it is conscious.

All its blood must drain out, otherwise Muslims regard it as impure. The person carrying out the killing has to recite an Arabic verse at the time.brings the practice in line with Western methods.

All Islamically slaughtered lamb and chicken sold in British supermarkets is stunned before being killed, but is not labelled as halal. Moderate Islamic groups allow animals to be stunned before slaughter, which brings the practice in line with Western methods.

Inayat Bunglawala, the chair of Muslims4UK, said: ‘Supermarkets should not be afraid of labelling their products as halal. Halal meat tastes just the same as non-halal meat.’

But Mike Judge, from the campaign group the Christian Institute, said: ‘The idea of having Islamic ritual said over meat would be objectionable to some Christians. I would find it objectionable, so it should be labelled as halal.’

Initially, Tesco and Waitrose were reluctant to admit they sold any halal meat. Tesco said in a statement: ‘It is not the case that all the meat we sell is halal or that our suppliers only offer halal meat.’

But when quizzed further, a spokesman said: ‘All our New Zealand lamb is halal-slaughtered, as is 35 per cent of our UK lamb. Less than five per cent of our chicken is halal.’

A Waitrose spokeswoman said in her first statement: ‘I can confirm that Waitrose does not sell any halal meat.’

But a day later, another spokes­woman said: ‘You mentioned the [Islamic] prayer said at the point of slaughter. This applies to all our lamb but not to beef or poultry.’
M&S said in its first statement: ‘No meat sourced by M&S from the UK is halal.’ When asked about lamb, a spokeswoman said: ‘Our New Zealand lamb is halal-slaughtered but pre-stunned.’

A Sainsbury’s spokesman said: ‘The abattoirs that supply us with lamb are licensed by the Muslim authorities and a prayer is said when the ­animals are killed.’

Sandwich chain Subway admitted that up to five per cent of its chicken is Islam­ically slaughtered without being stunned.

Subway said in a statement: ‘By mid-November there will be no halal meat in our non-halal stores. The meat served in halal Subway stores is not stunned before slaughter.’

Domino’s Pizza said it had served Islamically slaughtered chicken in most of its 580 outlets for ten years.

A spokeswoman said: ‘The majority of our chicken is halal slaughtered, but it is all stunned prior to slaughter.’

Pizza Hut and KFC, through their PR firm Freud Com­munications, said: ‘We use a number of international suppliers, some of whom provide halal chicken as standard practice.

‘Importantly, all of the chicken we source, halal or otherwise, is stunned before slaughter.’

Nando’s said: ‘All of our chickens are stunned first. A small proportion of all the chicken sold in our restaurants is halal.’
They HAVE to tell us what we're buying

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html

I don't exactly see a real issue, its not like they are selling regular meat as Kosher or anything, other non-religious methods don't have to be labeled as such and I don't see why it matters if it conforms to Islamic rules as long as it is conforming to the current laws for food quality and health regulations.

I must admit that I doubt that half of the meat that goes around my area is a matter of not asking how it is handled... that 2% mouse/rat in processed meat is a touch worrisome to me, but meat is meat

The matter of animal rights and anti-cruelty does seem to be worth being evaluated, but as to customers... what does it really change when eating you're steak, burger, etc?

i'm with jasper on this, i don't see what the issue is. an islamic prayer is said at the time of slaughter, so what, most christians say a prayer over their meal prior to eating it anyway, same goes for jewish tradition. i have tried kosher food and i don't taste a difference.

food is food, the homeless man eating scraps out of a trashcan isn't going to stop and worry himself over how the food was prepared, why should anyone else.

when i hunt, i have my own ritual i perform when the animal dies. i don't tell anyone how or what i did, do they care, no...they enjoy the meal.

as long as the proper sanitary and safety precautions were taken....and as to the whole 2% rat/mouse...yum,yum... :laugh: they eat bugs in some places. protein is protein.

years ago they didn't even stun animals, but peta and other animal rights groups got them to change that. stunning the animal is a whole lot more then what another animal would do to them, ever watch a cat catch and eat a mouse? they catch it shake it a bit let it run then catch it again. eventually they eat it. heck sometimes a lions prey is still alive while they're eating it.

Here is a flipside question - would (for example) the average Islamic follower really know if the food wasnt halal ?

AS ive said of eating meat before - if you want to be sure its killed etc as you want - then best just do the entire catching n killing process yourself.

And yes I have killed and butchered my own meat and fish on many occassions myself.

If someone says a prayer or whatever over my food - it bothers me not - as long as everything was hygienic.

MTFBWY - A

It is the way of most media....

Make mountain out of molehills.... but of course, the method does not matter to me....

To one to whom it matters, I guess this is an important story....

Sanitation, as Jasper has said, should be the main concern for all, religious concerns second.... again, to me...

as i frequently say: the media sensationalizes the negative, and marginalizes the postitive.


next time you read the paper or watch the news, pay attention to how much coverage they give negative stories and how little they give to positive stories. news is supposed to be unbiased, of course they wouldn't be able to make as much money if they were.

I concur with the other opinions thus far. Meat is meat. Ritual slaughter is just slaughtering in accordance with religious beliefs and does not make you a part of said religion. Christians do not have a required method of meat preparation so it should not be a big deal to them. We do not make a big deal out of the Jewish ritual slaughter for their kosher meat so why should this be any different?

I am not a fan of the media. They tend to create drama when they do not have to. Does the meat comply with the health standards? Then it should be fine.

On a side note, what if there was a ritual sacrifice of the animal done? Would that change people’s view? If a pagan or voodoo rite called for a blood sacrifice and the animal met all health standards, however the rite was performed upon death of the animal and then the meat sold to the butchering company. Would people have an issue with that?

What I did find interesting about the company involved was that they were hesitant to admit that they met halal standards. Were they embarrassed to be complying with the Muslim standard? Usually if you are hesitant to admit something than it implies you are doing something against the social mainstream. Are they afraid of the social backlash for admitting to ritual slaughter of their product?

i think their hesitation was due to the fact it was islamic tradition being used....and let's face it, alot of people are a little put off by islam due to various current events....they're letting fear and ignorance be their guide(the one's making an issue of the whole thing)

RyuJin wrote:

i think their hesitation was due to the fact it was islamic tradition being used....and let's face it, alot of people are a little put off by islam due to various current events....they're letting fear and ignorance be their guide(the one's making an issue of the whole thing)

Indeed, same thoughts I had......


RyuJin wrote:
as i frequently say: the media sensationalizes the negative, and marginalizes the postitive.





next time you read the paper or watch the news, pay attention to how much coverage they give negative stories and how little they give to positive stories. news is supposed to be unbiased, of course they wouldn't be able to make as much money if they were.


They do indeed, but they only do that because of the appetite of the average person.... If we (people in general) quit sensationalizing this stories with our thirst for them, (Lindsy Lohan comes to mind as wife and I discussed her inproportionate news coverage just the other night...), the media might change what it is covering....

Being biased too.... that is subject to interpetation.... would they not say we are to liberal? Because of our tolerance for all others? I'm refering to the thread of the mosque in New York....

I keep saying, perception and perspective....

Where the media constantly gets my dander up, is advertisement.... WHY, OH WHY... does my local hardware store have Christmas decorations up? Lets get a little closer.... SHEESH.... At least till after Halloween, (the best of the holidays... lol.... again, that is subjective....)

I agree with the opinions that it really shouldn't matter whether or not meat is prepared to a specific religious requirement - and it seems that it is only done for economic reasons (i.e. do it anyway and they can sell the same meat to more people). My main reason for posting this article was to highlight people's reactionary opinions - does killing a cow according to Islamic tradition make it a Muslim cow? Religions such as Christianity don't believe animals have souls anyway so what should it matter.

Personally speaking, I believe that people are too far removed from the killing of the animals for meat and that it has turned into an industry without compassion or respect for the sacrifice given by the animal (the Campbell lectures, episode 3, highlights this almost-forgottten practice). It's a shame that it takes something as divisive as these opinions to get people to think about the animals a bit more.

My foremost thought about the whole situation is that at least someone is saying a prayer for the animal, which is more than the complainants would have been doing!

MTFBWY