yoda's mistake

here is a thought i am working out. why did yoda's students turn to the darkside and become some of the worst being in the universe?

its because he let them make their own mistakes alone in the darkness so they had to find their own way through it?

Yoda’s mistake
Too wise for his own good.

All students want their hand held and told things until they have enough experience to where they can learn on their own. We all need a father to kick us in the ass and we all need a mother to kiss our wounds when we trip. Based on my understanding of yoda, he did neither of those things. He simply put his students through lifes trials and made sounds.

When a person wants answers and does not get a comprehendible response, they get angry. That anger leads them to make mistakes. When the person realizes the mistake they need forgiveness and instruction on how not learn from the experience. If the do not get that guidance and have to decipher the lesson on their own, that anger turns to hatred.

If the person hurts himself along this journey, the person develops scars and scars are hard and stiff. The body and the soul become firm and no longer flow with life.

This all leads to the darkside. The person develops resentment to the teacher for not holding their hand when their where scared or needed assistance.


when people ask for help or offer their service, they are weak and vulnerable. if their efforts of on heard or are taken advantage of, people become hard and spiteful - they will never be that weak again.

yoda was wise in the force. too wise. he was too far along the path to truly interact or communicate with the learning student. he needed a mediator that could hold the student's hand more.

what do you think?

interesting view, i do agree that sometimes those who teach can be out of touch with whom they teach. on the other hand there are some things we have to learn for ourselves and experience ourselves in order for us to understand them. some things simply can't be explained without experience. i myself have run into that a few times while teaching, it takes considerable creativity to attempt to teach what is best learned through experience,even then there is no guarantee that the method will work.

A couple of things i would like to comment on,coming from an adult ed background,there are different ways in which a person learns,some pick it up by being shown,some have to be walked through it and others have to do it themselves and make their own mistakes. i am of the latter. luke was a bit of a candy ass when he was young.he really needed to toughen up which is why yoda made him suffer through the trial. as for anakin or darth,he was pretty mch thrown into the jedi order,forced almost,he also(according to the movies)started too late in life for training,it seems he was destined to fail right from the start. The dark side is very seductive and easy.

Interesting views indeed. They certainly make sense and are very human. But can we really compare say Luke`s training to the upbringing of a child? Are teachers in society`s schools or universities or training colleges responsible for the personal welfare of the student? To take on the respnsability of the personal welfare or development of someone is a life time decision no matter how that care may look like. So what happens to the student after training is finished? And the role of a father and mother is very much different to that of a teacher. A father and mother remain as such even after death of either parties. Masters or teachers for that matter are single moments which give way to other opportunities.

Luke is also refered to as a weakling, but his life as a farmer boy and his responsabilities say something else. It also takes guts to make a move from the family to a future without apparent income. Not forgetting that this is fiction, a mythos, we cannot forget that only small excerpts have been portrayed in the books and movies.

To Wise to let people make their own choices?
Yoda can't make people come to his conclusions, they have to do that for themselves.
Why hold hands when you can guide individuals into personal life experiences?
The metaphorical scraps and scars from failures can meen so much more than ... reminders of anger. They are experiences that shape our perseptions, our values, our growth.
There is a line between guiding and coddeling. People have to learn for themselves.
Oh yea, we are talking about Yoda. Yea, I bet he does all that stuff I said.

just a quick one about the length of service to a student. to me it is a lifelong endeavor, as i have been taught by a very influential teacher in my life. he has always been a positive influence as well as a guiding hand when i needed it either to further my carreer as a tech or to help me get into school to become an instructor. And while he is not personally responsible for the well being of a students life it is a life long quest of his and mine to be there for an ex student, in some capacity or another. I had contacted my old apprentoid instructor 12 years after completing the class and he imediately helped me out with whatever he could, i am eternally grateful to him. It is a trait that i would like to take into my own life and carreer. I belive it will allow me to becaome a better Jedi if I follow some of his examples. Thanks for letting me spout off for a while.

Who was it in the recordings? Lucas I think. He said his first teacher/mentor was his father.

Our immediate familiars are our first teachers. We learn the world as they see fit. Santa, Tooth Fairy, put away your clothes, please and thank you.. the basics to get along.

Our secondary teachers include our first steps away from our familiars. Friends parents, teachers, friends, the adults you see at the grocery store that you deal with.

Then Bosses and co-workers. But still our friends. Now probably new ones. People we date, love, marry, divorce.

ALWAYS there are going to be teachers we do not like. Bosses who are pains in the backside. Girlfriends/Boyfriends who lie, cheat and steal.

But, ALL of them have a lesson to teach. Sometimes, we just don't want to deal with it. These are the hardest of lessons.

If, we are very lucky, the right mentor might just come along. Right now, I have two great mentors who like to teach me as much as I can absorb. Good thing they are teaching me different things, less confusion for me..

I've been extremely lucky. I have had plenty of good mentors. Too bad I didn't figure it out till it was too late. I did learn some lessons, oh well, I can't live in regret. I am happy for what I have now...

Yoda, wasn't necessarily a bad teacher. Just maybe not the right one for Anakin or Luke. It is a special relationship between the them and not all masters are right for all students.

And speaking of Luke, I don't think he was a weakling. He was a farmer. Who, like all farmers, are quiet heroes, tough and resilient. Although he appeared weak, he had inner strength.

good point about the influence of family...that's why in the fiction younglings were taken from their families at birth, to eliminate that influence...i believe the correct term for luke would be :humble, he didn't go around flaunting his power or bragging about it.

in the end we get the teachers we need at the moment whether we know it or not, and we get taught what we need to know at the moment whether we want it or not...

So I think it needs to be said, purely from a Star Wars movie viewpoint that Yoda was not Anakin's teacher. In fact, he was adamantly opposed to teaching him. He was overruled by the council after the events of Naboo and to the urgings of Kenobi, who openly stated he wasn't the right teacher for Anakin due to his own arrogance.

In terms of Luke, he never really had real training in the context of what Jedi normally would have had. Sure Dagobah, Empire Strikes Back,, lots of unseen footage etc etc.. but there's not enough there to say \"He's not the right teacher\".

However, I think the direct answer to your question really is: \"Because teacher and student were forced together by the events at hand.\"

Now removing myself from the movie fan side of things and more into the question at hand regarding teaching.

A person's first teacher is him or herself. We learn about ourselves while in the womb. We learn the responses we take for automatic. (Breathing etc).

There are many other teachers we have in life and the responsibility shifts from parents to self at some point in choosing the right teachers for what we want to accomplish in life. I wouldn't go to an auto mechanic to learn martial arts. Moreover, if I were to go to a martial arts teacher, I'd go through several iterations of interviews and visits to ensure that what that teacher has accomplished is what I personally want to accomplish.

A teacher who has accepted a life of a reclusive hermit is not going to be a good role-model for someone who wants to have a family and a prosperous business.

I find the above is something that is often forgotten by students as they move through the academic ranks. They assume that every teacher with a degree or rank is equivalent to their needs. This is not the case. Additionally, I know exactly what my first question will be to whomever chooses to be a Master to me in teachings.

\"Why exactly should I accept you? Tell me about yourself. The Force supposedly brought you to me. These are my goals and experiences. What can you offer me as a role-model?\"

If the answer doesn't fit who I am, then I'll politely decline and wait for another.

Maybe off point or off topic, but I think it's at least tangental to the discussion.