What defines a 'Master'?

Hey all.

Just yesterday I had an on-line discussion with a young fellow. This discussion was not specifically 'Jedi' related, but more on a martial arts level. Anyway his question was based upon the duality of curiosity and irritation. It seemed that in his own area of interest he was somewhat annoyed that so many people were going around calling themselves Sensei or Master, etc. He wanted to know: \"What is a Master, what defines a Master and who gets to call themselves a Master?\"

I thought about that for a few seconds before answering and told him that a person could only answer those questions from two angles: their own perspective and from their own tradition. While I am by no means a master of any martial arts tradition I am considered a 'master' in my own tradition, so I answered him from that perspective:

A Master (in my own not so humble reckoning):

-is someone who has practiced their craft for a considerable time.
-Who has achieved an advanced level of knowledge in their craft.
-has done considerable work/research in advancing their craft.
-Has contributed to the continuation of their tradition.
-is recognized (by peers, Elders, their association,tribe, culture etc.) as a Master
-Has the ability to pass on his/her knowledge in a concise, proficient manner.

I think the important thing here is that a Master is basically an ambassador of their particular tradition/craft in that they are representative of the higher levels of learning in that craft or tradition. I also think that the rank/title of 'Master' is one that needs to be recognized/bestowed upon an individual by 'others', not just taken on as a fancy moniker or ego booster.

Above all (in my tradition) a Master is also an example of learned humility - not one to 'toot his own horn', but to work/act in quiet respectability.

Anyway, that's my take on it and the explanation I gave to my young friend.

I thought I'd share that here for any who were interested.

Regards.

Qorvas

Very good discription.

Very similar to the views I hold, but since I haven't thought it through from a literary since, yours are much better written.

I'm a struggling writer when I'm not doing my day job
Thus my writing is the way it is out of necessity :laugh: :laugh:

Qorvas

Here in the Temple, a Knight attains Master status when his first Apprentice becomes Knighted. (Sadly, I have not heard from mine in a while. So while some here may refer to me as 'Master' out of respect, by that strict definition, I am not.)
IMHO, what makes a Master a Master is his ability to pass on what he has learned well enough that his pupil may do the same. All the Masters here can and do just that.

Chance Argo; greetings.

Indeed, that makes sense in the context of this community.

Different traditions certainly have different definitions.

You may in turn be interested in a piece I wrote a little while ago - called 'What is a master' its either in articles or in one of my blogs - if you cant find it let me know and i'll repost it here for you

of course I use master often as a respect term (master John or master hans, or whomever) of course I likely should put a capital on it, but as you may presently be aware of my grammar sucks.

I had thought you became a senior knight when you took an apprentice but a master when the apprentice is knighted. But I'm not sure about it. I've always figured when I'm a master someone will tell me. lol

Very well written and worded as has been said. I like that your peers, elders etc. (the EC in our case I'd assume) decide you are a master, and it's not an ego booster. Also something that should be noted about knights as well.

I like to think of a master as a guide on the road. someone different from your parents and different than your friend but still a little of both. like a sighnpost on an unfamilliar road.
But that's my take on it.

OK - technically, the promos are as follows

From initiate to apprentice when one passes the initiates classes and is taken as an apprentice by ones own Master, this not to say ones Master is a Master - confusing I know - so we call them teaching Masters - the Teaching Master can be either a Knight, a Senior Knight, a Master or a Grand Master

Once training has been completed - the apprentice becomes a Knight (based on whether ones own teaching master deems them ready as well as other Senior members such as Knights and Masters)

A Knight becomes a senior Knight when they take an apprentice.

A Senior Knight is eligible and usually granted, the title of Master when one of their previous apprentices, trains an apprentice of their own to the rank of Knight - bearing in mind we operate a minimum guideline training time of 6 - 8 months, this means it should take a minmum of 12 months (more likely 16-18 months) to attain the Rank of master.

Grand Masters are appointed by The EC and BrJohn - based on many things - each case is individual.

There are also exceptions to these - mainly based on previous experience, knowledge and also Knighthoods from other Jedi sites and that sort of thing as well as work done behind the scenes in the running of this site and various others and projects - some may well call it brown nosing - thats upto them.

I was Knighted here after 3 days by BrJohn - however, he knew me well from another site - this isnt a secret, ive said this openly on many occasions but its one of those things that still exists as a topic of gossip

The Jedi Clergy side has its own ranking system as too does the web side of things and the three dont necessarily go hand in hand - you certainly dont have to be a grand master to be an admin - it just coincidental that more often than not, it happens this way.

I believe this is all covered in FAQ/Front page, lovingly crafted by Grand Master Jon (and yes it does take a lot of time and work to make this information available to all) and the knowledge of the rankings etc of this site is a prerequisite of Knighthood (part of training)

HINT HINT Homework time

MTFBWY - A

So many definitions of Master.....good ones, to be sure, but oh so many. Well, I guess I should add my opinion on that word also then, or rather, my own definition.

A Master, by all traditional standards, is someone that has achieved a higher level of knowledge in a certain tradition, as stated already, however, to me, that is not a good enough definition of what a Master SHOULD be.

The Master, while having a higher level of experience, or learning in a certain tradition should also have the ability, and the humility, to accept the fact that somewhere out there, he/she is going to run into someone of the same tradition, who, while not always the case, not so rare as some like to think, that knows more than they do about this tradition, SO, where does that leave the \"Master\"? Simple, exactly where they currently stand but ONLY, if they choose to realize that they are far from perfect and omniscient in their craft, and that they can set aside the ego, and learn from someone else.

Masters are not infallible beings, we are people, we may have more experience, or momre knowledge of something, but we are human, and therefore subject to failure the same as anyone that is an Initiate, an Apprentice, or a Knight/Sr. Knight.

So, to make clearer my definition of a Master, the Master is the one that realizes that they are not perfect, and are still open to learning everything that they can learn, so that they can pass that on to someone else, and learn some more.


\"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you would live forever.\"
- Mahatma Ghandi.

Too true Master Shaun a Master is not simply a google search machine, which also does not produce all there is to know, but a person with experience who can handle what s/he knows, is open to learn, and is aware that s/he doesn`t know everything. A master can only know one thing but has the wisdom and personal insight to utilise it.