Why are you here?

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06 Feb 2020 06:57 #349525 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Why are you here?
TIL or re-learned about the zone of proximal development. Alexandre and I were having a bit of a discussion about teaching philosophy and we are on opposite ends as to how to help people explore some of the stuff.

There is this article about how to digest books above your "level" which Alex shared
medium.com/@RyanHoliday/how-to-digest-bo...ligence-a11bd134da13

And if you read the above my suggestion is that, specifically TM's because we were talking about the Temple, are a bit like personal trainers. We need to understand how people are learning now and move them further according to Vygotsky's Zone of proximal development.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_proximal_development

Even though it's a child development idea, it's still really helpful in any sort of mrntor/mentee relationship

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06 Feb 2020 07:24 #349530 by CaesarEJW
Replied by CaesarEJW on topic Why are you here?
For me, this has been a call-to-arms. A "come to Jesus moment" if you will.
This is a serious issue in our community.
Those of us who are true to this community, who wish to follow the Jedi way, need to start showing it.
Myself included.

From now on, we need to rise above the pointless argumentative nonsense and set an example of equanimity for others, whose hearts are inclined to the Way, to follow.

Seriously, this is my pledge of decency, of respect, to my fellow Temple Members, and to the Way.

I will abide.
And I suggest we all do the same.

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06 Feb 2020 11:17 #349536 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic Why are you here?
Since 2012 I've learned that no community that tries to base itself on righteous virtue can ever be exempt from human flaw, and in fact, naturally faces more of its human flaw the more righteous it strives to be. Among this inevitable outcome, when I watch threads that are likely to be seen as pointless bickering, what I have come to see in each one of them are individual lessons in social and psychological development.

I once used to feel like this community was simply lost and my irritation would burn me out to the point most of us get to where we just want to stop associating with this place. But I stuck around and something interesting happened. I began seeing each instance of bickering as an opportunity to observe and learn why each participant was saying what they were. Each bit of insight helped me understand myself as a person and in turn, trained me to learn new things about how to interact with people on a more effective level. I realized it was something extremely crucial to my path.

The more I learned, the more I realized that the nature of this temple is not necessarily what we want or hope it to be (that is a projection of our selves we put on it, and that in itself can be observed and learned from), but it is something that gives us an opportunity to learn things about ourselves that we rarely ever know we need to learn - the way our expectations about the world works, why, and what that says about ourselves and others. That alone carries information that can last, and take us well beyond any apprenticeship if we're paying the right attention.

But at this point, I learned that things are just the way they're supposed to be - a community of quite normal people all learning typical things from one another, just talking, miscommunicating sometimes, facing our insecurities, our ignorances, and our egos. After realizing this, I think I would be concerned if this place didn't have these kinds of quite innocent characteristics. I think it's a healthy sign and I'm no longer feeling disheartened. Every discussion is a lesson. Those of us who begin paying the right attention can always come away with invaluable information to implement on our own paths. :)

Thank you for this thread.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
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06 Feb 2020 12:12 #349537 by Alexandre Orion
Replied by Alexandre Orion on topic Why are you here?
In my time here, I've come to learn, or have been reminded from prior lessons, how vulnerable we can all be. I've learnt to let myself be wrong and/or confused (most likely a bit of both). I've learnt that retributive anger is silly. I've learnt that some things suck and we just need to let them suck until they don't do any more (some of those things are others' attitudes ; sometimes me). I've learnt 'presencing', forgotten it again, recalled it again, forgotten it once more.

It's no huge mystery: we're living through a transitional era. Old values are having to give way to new necessities, just like they've done for centuries. We have a worldwide communications grid in our pocket, so these transition phases happen more frequently and more intensely.

That worldwide information grid is pretty useful, but allows us greater latitude for taking our frustrations out on others. There's something gratifying about the righteousness my apprentice was just talking about and the tendency to cyberbully anyone, not only who challenges it, but who is just there. These are pretty flimsy gratification.

I've learnt that I don't have to have a response for everything. If someone is feeling the need to point out my faults, how shame-ridden are they ? It is no defence of my dignity to make someone else's day worse.

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
~ Henri Bergson
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06 Feb 2020 14:24 #349539 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Why are you here?
There can be moments a fighter realizes there are more fights in the heart and mind than in real life.
There can be moments a singer hums and its not theory.
There can come moments when a sword is displayed rather than shown.
As a modern day Jeddist, there came a time, there was in my in my life, when I realized I don't have to ACT all the time.
The sword has its discipline for a reason and sometimes our speech needs a bit of parallel to it as far as ideas and action. First hand, its worth it. For me, part of the romance of manners and my Jedism is knowing when and where to use it. Think about that. Just because we have sabers and are Jeddist sometimes DOENT mean we whip it out and chop hands off every time.
Every idea and faith and way and path seems to have this one parallel and its that every thing has its season. There are moments for a fight and for NOT fight. There are moment for salt and NOT salt.
FIND OUT.
My encouragement is find these JEDI. Find those people. Sit with them. Part of the romance for me is the fact that as a Jedi - there are moments I DONT have to act.
Kicking against the pricks leaves ya with sore feet and the ability to walk hurt. Eventually, its my hope, modern day Jeddist learn - it takes as much as it takes to use a real sword is as much as it can take to use our words. HUGE PARALELL for benefit.
As a modern day Jeddist - I don't pick fights any more. Not my cup of tea. No one can make me fight. Takes two to tango but it only takes one person to be the example of what CAN be.
What im really saying. Get ya some real training for real things. Talk to folks you wanna be like. Sit with them. This is where change can enter. Identification is key but what then? Its easy to find a fault but to find the solution or make it.....Theres more to this than just one choice as in life. hope this helps.


...that's why im here...

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06 Feb 2020 22:28 - 06 Feb 2020 22:31 #349562 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Why are you here?
This is the internet, you determine your own level of participation. We can have a thousand little separate rooms all right next to each other and all completely quarantined off from one another. You are not obligated to read every post or care about every thread. You are not obligated to reply to everyone who speaks to you. You are the captain of your own TOTJO experience. If youre being pulled into the drama, perhaps thats just as much a statement on your own maturity as it is on your neighbors? The “authorities” arent going to save you from your own inability to regulate your own attention and your own behavior; save yourself.

People are complicated.
Last edit: 06 Feb 2020 22:31 by OB1Shinobi.
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06 Feb 2020 22:46 #349565 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Why are you here?

OB1Shinobi wrote: This is the internet, you determine your own level of participation. We can have a thousand little separate rooms all right next to each other and all completely quarantined off from one another.

Exactly. The journal section is pretty much it, bar the completeness part of the quarantine. It's pretty close, though. Your journal is the place you go to say things you do not wish discussed in any way. Or so I thought until I learned that apparently any and every thread can be essentially a journal, if only one declares that they ought be. It turns out, don't you know, that which ever thread one creates one gets to be King in, because of a reason too obvious to be explained in the rules.

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned
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06 Feb 2020 23:43 - 06 Feb 2020 23:45 #349567 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Why are you here?

Gisteron wrote: Your journal is the place you go to say things you do not wish discussed in any way. Or so I thought until I learned that apparently any and every thread can be essentially a journal, if only one declares that they ought be. It turns out, don't you know, that which ever thread one creates one gets to be King in, because of a reason too obvious to be explained in the rules.



This could be a potentially useful discussion. There is a precedent of topic starters having some authority about the direction the topic is meant to take. Zenchi’s Dark Side Meditations thread is one that comes to mind for me because i remember him specifically telling people it wasnt intended as an open discussion and it wasnt going to become one. But it doesnt seem like a good idea to me that the entirety of the forum be made into some kind of intellectual safe space, where we all have the privilege of silencing any idea or opinion that is contrary to our own. How much authority should OP have? None whatsoever? Dictator status? Is there some reasonable point between?

Edit: im just gonna go ahead and make this a new topic

People are complicated.
Last edit: 06 Feb 2020 23:45 by OB1Shinobi.
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07 Feb 2020 00:37 - 07 Feb 2020 01:10 #349570 by CaesarEJW
Replied by CaesarEJW on topic Why are you here?
.
Last edit: 07 Feb 2020 01:10 by CaesarEJW.

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07 Feb 2020 04:47 - 07 Feb 2020 05:09 #349578 by Zero
Replied by Zero on topic Why are you here?
I give up....by all means, let’s all fight and argue on what was supposed to be a place for people to share about what they are learning from others here. But no...we can’t do that because I said I specifically didn’t want that, which in turn means We get to debate about weather or not I had the power to have just one thread where people don’t act like jack asses. A thread where potential new members could see that this is a place where they can learn skills to better themselves or the world around them. Now it’s become just another thread to show people how we can’t get along no matter what the topic.

Pretty sure my time at totjo is over. I have enough issues going on that coming to a CHURCH online shouldn’t cause me more stress and frustration.

Totjo helped me through some rough times. But when I need it the most I get nothing but ridiculed. It’s obvious now that this place is no longer a CHURCH or a temple. It’s a place to discus politics, and to argue, and to openly make fun of others for there beliefs. This used to be a place to learn but those times are obviously over. I’m having a very hard time in my personal life right now and I used to be able to come here to ask for help or opinions or even to be cheered up with a laugh. Those days are obviously gone.

I have no where else to go from here, no one to turn too. But at this point no one and no where is way better than here.

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Last edit: 07 Feb 2020 05:09 by Zero.
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