Is the water live?

Manu wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Manu wrote: Ignorance, yet Knowledge. Though I can appreciate the ineffable aspect of "the Force"

This struck me as one of the most contradictory statements ever made!. Lol jedi here love their knowledge right? But then all over the doctrine here there are soft areas that skim over this tenet and ignore the actual fact that we dont really know anything about the force or consciousness or where the universe even came from. Every religion except this jediism has clear and exact descriptions of the nature of reality, how it got here, the agencies involved and the process done to make it. But the one religion that puts knowledge highest does none of this. Instead the doctrine is a few lines defined by a single person and put up as something we are all supposed to agree to. And when we disagree on those things its said well that's ok individual belief is great and not all has to be followed. But present something, anything outside of the realm of science and look out!!! You in for the fight of your life!!. Know why? Because the actual doctrine here doesnt really tell us anything at all. It's not a basis for a religion that people can get behind at all! There is nothing there but a bit of ghost turd fluff and so we are all left to try and define these things on our own instead of relying in a clear and concise written doctrine that we can start using as a base of common discussion. Instead we all just start wherever we are and let the wars rage!

How is the statement contradictory?

You seem to hunger for a coherent explanation regarding our origins and the mechanics of the world. You hunger for science, not religion, Haha.

Jediism as a religion is concerned with orthopraxy (how to behave) rather than orthodoxy (being told the nature of the world), and in general regard the different orthodoxies of world religions as archetypal expressions rather than hard truths.

Well if that's true then you have failed miserably at how to behave and your understanding of reality.

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote: NOPE, wrong on all counts.

Believe is not a choice or a tool. You cant choose what to believe in. it just happens

Yes you can, I do it all the time...so who is 'wrong'?

You are. What you are describing is faith not belief.

How would you know? Feel free to clarify your understanding and how that applies to me!

Because it's a fact that belief is not a choice. Either you are convinced of something or you are not convinced of it. That is belief. The other, faith, is choosing to follow a doctrine based on nothing more than desire. This is even different than worldview, which is also belief, something you have no choice in.

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote: NOPE, wrong on all counts.

Believe is not a choice or a tool. You cant choose what to believe in. it just happens

Yes you can, I do it all the time...so who is 'wrong'?

You are. What you are describing is faith not belief.

How would you know? Feel free to clarify your understanding and how that applies to me!

Because it's a fact that belief is not a choice. Either you are convinced of something or you are not convinced of it. That is belief. The other, faith, is choosing to follow a doctrine based on nothing more than desire. This is even different than worldview, which is also belief, something you have no choice in.

Why can't you change something your convinced of? That's the benefit of honesty and commitment.... discovery and positive growth vs defensiveness and stagnation.

Fyxe wrote: Well if that's true then you have failed miserably at how to behave and your understanding of reality.

How so?

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote: NOPE, wrong on all counts.

Believe is not a choice or a tool. You cant choose what to believe in. it just happens

Yes you can, I do it all the time...so who is 'wrong'?

You are. What you are describing is faith not belief.

How would you know? Feel free to clarify your understanding and how that applies to me!

Because it's a fact that belief is not a choice. Either you are convinced of something or you are not convinced of it. That is belief. The other, faith, is choosing to follow a doctrine based on nothing more than desire. This is even different than worldview, which is also belief, something you have no choice in.

Why can't you change something your convinced of? That's the benefit of honesty and commitment.... discovery and positive growth vs defensiveness and stagnation.

I dont believe I EVER said beliefs dont or wont or cant change. I have only ever said that you have no choice in believing a thing or not believing a thing at any point in time. It's a matter of being convinced or not convinced. That is all.

Manu wrote:

Fyxe wrote: Well if that's true then you have failed miserably at how to behave and your understanding of reality.

How so?

I don't know, maybe you need to answer that question for yourself.

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote: NOPE, wrong on all counts.

Believe is not a choice or a tool. You cant choose what to believe in. it just happens

Yes you can, I do it all the time...so who is 'wrong'?

You are. What you are describing is faith not belief.

How would you know? Feel free to clarify your understanding and how that applies to me!

Because it's a fact that belief is not a choice. Either you are convinced of something or you are not convinced of it. That is belief. The other, faith, is choosing to follow a doctrine based on nothing more than desire. This is even different than worldview, which is also belief, something you have no choice in.

Why can't you change something your convinced of? That's the benefit of honesty and commitment.... discovery and positive growth vs defensiveness and stagnation.

I dont believe I EVER said beliefs dont or wont or cant change. I have only ever said that you have no choice in believing a thing or not believing a thing at any point in time. It's a matter of being convinced or not convinced. That is all.

You seem to believe that belief is forced upon by circumstance only... otherwise its a faith? I think faith is the type of trust associated with belief and don't make the same semantic distinction as you... because I've not found any difference in the quantity or quality of results possible from forced or created alterations in these things. Worldview most definitely can change by circumstance, but also be design, by choice... perhaps your different perspective is to the degree of control and placement of 'authority' to/over it, in the process. Same with belief... its believed while its a belief but once no longer believed is no longer a belief and does not require faith.. ie changed, ie can be used as a tool.

We all have our own personal definitions , beliefs , philosophies , and perception of this thing we call "reality" . The reason why most of us are here is to search for new knowledge and see if it aligns with our ("reality" ( what I stated in the previous sentence )) .

Most of us did not come here to argue about these things and have people ridicule us over own "reality" . So please don't let's keep everything civil whether it be my threads , yours , or anyone else's . There is a reason why I make pretty much all my threads open discussion topics because I want to learn . Whether it be from the content here or from the people themselves . We try to strive for peace in such a chaotic world , yet what we find are moments of peace then chaos in some form or another . Hold on to those blissful moments , cherish them . As well as the bad moments for no matter what you will always gain wisdom and knowledge . You choose if you want to accept what you learn or not . That's it , a simple choice of yes or no . The maybe that you think of as a third option is just you holding off of the answer of yes and no .

So that being said please don't start saying that one person is right while the other is wrong . Just because your "reality" doesn't Aline with the other person doesn't mean you can call them out . Accept what you believe and if you think the other person is not correct the so be it . In this matter I like the saying : let's agree to disagree (and leave it at that ) . If the conversation won't remain civil then you are not trying hard enough to keep it civil .

So ok Malicious, say you have your reality and I have mine. We interact, so there's something which encompasses both of our realities. Once would think this phenomenon (let's call it Seality) has rules which would in turn influence our realities no? Doesn't that Seality sound enticing? Wouldn't you much rather try and figure out if something is true in Seality than say "oh yeah even if it's false in your reality, it's true in mine."
So let's pretend we're answering this question in Seality

The only ones dragging it off civility are the ones who get all emotional at the first sight of any kind of intellectual challenge. If "oh, that's a nice belief, here is mine" is all you want to hear, then I'm sorry, but "open discussion" is not what you seek. Neither is learning. That other people believe different things is not the last thing to learn, but the first. Once we can acknowledge that, the only way to grow further is by questioning ourselves and each other, find out why we believe as we do and what each of us might be overlooking. Who even came up with this notion of some kind of noteworthy growth that comes without any struggle?

Within this thread I wanted to hear your opinions,
not to convince others about their wrong perception,
and arguments, which are totally out of Jedi code - Emotion yet peace.
/seems common for lot of thread out there((:

At the page (3) I did correct my mistake with conception of discussion as Kuro point out,
So, I assumed that you all read it. For next time I will choose a different title.

I apology to those who didn´t read it, we could avoid a lot of drama.

I assume someone else has brought this up but i cannot consider water to be alive because it doesnt evolve. The water cycle is not evolution. Evolution is a like a tree with branches reaching out in all directions, the water cycle is a consistent cycle of molecular change that is driven by temperature. Water isnt aware, doesnt grow and it doesnt reproduce. Water is capable of dissolving almost everything but it doesnt intentionally consume organisms and convert this into cellular energy. Water doesnt have cells, at all. All life on our planet meet these criteria - they have cells, they evolve, they have some means of recognizing and interacting with the world around them, they consume food for energy, they grow and reproduce. Water does none of these things so i dont believe water to be alive.

Water does none of these things so i dont believe water to be alive


I do - regardless of those ideas - does that mean one of us is right and one of us is wrong ? I have a list of reasons why I believe it is? It’s not just by this specific but can a yes and a no exist together? Where are the odds ?

Respectfully, i believe that one of us is right and that one of us is wrong.... but i dont feel that i have to battle in order to prove which is which. Can we co-exist? Certainly.

Yes - we can.
We can even encourage others who don’t believe like us... think about that if you like.
Some will , some can’t some won’t- the hugest thing in my own modern day Jediism was taking the - pill of not being the center of everything and every one- the whole part of the circle not the center of it but even that can be a many faces idea as well. It takes practice and a bit of time- it did for me. Not every one will subscribe to MY - ideas - I’m ok with that. Makes ME less salty. I don’t speak for others.

How- that’s the big question - do I love my family - yes now - today - HOW will I do it ... how will I let my ideas and my convictions and my codes and my faith and beliefs - how - will I do them today? Big questions ! How can I let those who don’t believe water is alive be...??? Hmmm smiley face!

Or not... choices choices

Fyxe wrote:

Manu wrote:

Fyxe wrote: Well if that's true then you have failed miserably at how to behave and your understanding of reality.

How so?

I don't know, maybe you need to answer that question for yourself.

Well, if you don't know, then why would you say that?

Manu wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Manu wrote:

Fyxe wrote: Well if that's true then you have failed miserably at how to behave and your understanding of reality.

How so?

I don't know, maybe you need to answer that question for yourself.

Well, if you don't know, then why would you say that?

I do know. but that does not mean I can tell you what is wrong. you have to figure that out for yourself in order to grow from it.

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote:

Adder wrote:

Fyxe wrote: NOPE, wrong on all counts.

Believe is not a choice or a tool. You cant choose what to believe in. it just happens

Yes you can, I do it all the time...so who is 'wrong'?

You are. What you are describing is faith not belief.

How would you know? Feel free to clarify your understanding and how that applies to me!

Because it's a fact that belief is not a choice. Either you are convinced of something or you are not convinced of it. That is belief. The other, faith, is choosing to follow a doctrine based on nothing more than desire. This is even different than worldview, which is also belief, something you have no choice in.

Why can't you change something your convinced of? That's the benefit of honesty and commitment.... discovery and positive growth vs defensiveness and stagnation.

I dont believe I EVER said beliefs dont or wont or cant change. I have only ever said that you have no choice in believing a thing or not believing a thing at any point in time. It's a matter of being convinced or not convinced. That is all.

You seem to believe that belief is forced upon by circumstance only... otherwise its a faith? I think faith is the type of trust associated with belief and don't make the same semantic distinction as you... because I've not found any difference in the quantity or quality of results possible from forced or created alterations in these things. Worldview most definitely can change by circumstance, but also be design, by choice... perhaps your different perspective is to the degree of control and placement of 'authority' to/over it, in the process. Same with belief... its believed while its a belief but once no longer believed is no longer a belief and does not require faith.. ie changed, ie can be used as a tool.

Belief IS forced on you! thats what Im trying to say! faith is not though. Belief is the state of being convinced of something. faith is the choice of acceptance of something that you may or may not be convinced of and does not require proof.

Ill show you an example. Do you believe in God or not? There is absolutely no proof that a God exists and yet we can have faith that one does based on a desire to accept or other such internal processes. However belief there is no choice. for example do you believe that tigers exist in this world? There is tons of evidence they do exist. you can see them on TV or in the zoo and they are in books and sometimes in the news. people can tell you accounts of their existence as well. All this is evidence that convinces you tigers exist. Now I shall ask you, can you just stop believing they exist? And I dont mean just tell my you dont believe the exist but really just stop believing they exist?

Please guys can you end it up? Your word´s gunfight leads nowhere
and causing lot of useless drama and emotional suffering within temple.

If you have something to topic, share it with us.
Otherwise you can continue with personal message conversation.