Am I allowed to call myself a Jedi in this Temple if I...?

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15 Feb 2020 11:05 #349790 by Persi_Stance

Br. John wrote:

I believe taking a life is necessary when it is done to someone who has proven that they are not interested in redemption, who is so undeniably vile that their actions would contradict when they say they want to change. There's a point where it doesn't add up to let those who are incapable of goodness go free, and there is a point where that incapability is undisguisable.


Why would they go free? Life without parole means they never get out of prison. Someone sentenced to death routinely spends 20 or more years in prison before being executed. If they can be held securely for that long, why can't they be held until they die? 25% of Death Row inmates die before they're executed now.


If you don't intend to give someone the chance to live their life, then why waste the resources on a life sentence? If they're truly deserving of such a sentence, then free up the cell, food, and money that goes into keeping someone like that alive. Sure, they can absolutely detain someone that long, but securely is a different matter entirely. Most of the people who are in that jail or prison have one of two things on their mind: survivaland escape. Escapes happen. 20 is a long time for sure, but I'd rather it be that than 25, 30, or even higher of people like what we've been discussing looking fora way out.

Where there is Peace, there is no Emotion.
Where there is Knowledge, there is no Ignorance.
Where there is Serenity, there is no Passion.
Where there is Harmony, there is no Chaos.
Do not fear Death, for there is the Force.

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15 Feb 2020 11:12 #349791 by Persi_Stance

Eleven wrote: Life is sacred. But take ones life is not ours to take or we ourselves are murderers. Let them sit in prison and study and reflect on their wrongs in life and hope they’ve converted and repented their ways...killing them teaches nothing the dark side...they’ll not learn anything from this.



I don't believe it's our job to hunt people like this down either, but what if they don't repent? If they decide not to reflect, or they do and choose to continue? They fool the system into thinking they've changed and come out and take their "hobby" back up? Someone like that Learns just as much from living at that point as they do from dying, and I prefer the road that has the potential to keep innocents safer.

Where there is Peace, there is no Emotion.
Where there is Knowledge, there is no Ignorance.
Where there is Serenity, there is no Passion.
Where there is Harmony, there is no Chaos.
Do not fear Death, for there is the Force.

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15 Feb 2020 11:15 #349792 by Persi_Stance

CaesarEJW wrote: Killing for vengeance, even in the name of justice, is killing out of hate, born from fear and anger, which makes one no better than the offender, and is, as we all know, a path to the Dark Side.

You drop down to the offender's level if you abandon mercy.

Killing could be acceptable in self-defense, but only in the direst of circumstances.

If the offender is already incapacitated or captured, then executing them in cold-blood is unacceptable.


So then, could the execution of a serial offender be considered self-defense from the system itself rather than an independent people/person?

Where there is Peace, there is no Emotion.
Where there is Knowledge, there is no Ignorance.
Where there is Serenity, there is no Passion.
Where there is Harmony, there is no Chaos.
Do not fear Death, for there is the Force.
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15 Feb 2020 18:43 #349794 by Fyxe

Snow Wolf wrote: Thank you for posting this, OP. This is a question I took into account before registering, yet will not be an obstacle to me applying to be a member and working through the path. I'll begin my response by paraphrasing what my late grandfather used to tell me regarding capital punishment: "If we hadn't hung horse thieves, this country would've never gotten west of the Mississippi."

For context, I was born, raised in, and reside in, the United States. My grandfather's words are in reference to the country's westward expansion. In those days, if someone's horse (or anything they depended upon for their daily lives) was stolen, their livelihood was stolen, and it was viewed as equal to severely damaging (or even taking) the theft victim's life. However, it's also said that "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

In theory, I support the existence of capital punishment. I think it should be an option to use for what I consider the most heinous of criminals who take or damage multiple lives. I consider these crimes to be:

  • mass murder
  • serial murder
  • serial sex offenders (think child molestation, human trafficking, etc.)
  • serial rape
  • terrorist acts where multiple lives are claimed or multiple people are severely maimed
  • treason where the traitor's actions genuinely put the lives of their countrymen at risk
However, other commenters have raised the issue of executing the innocent, keeping the condemned for many many years before execution, etc. The criminal justice system has absolutely unfair elements to it.

In conclusion, I think so long as the penalty is applied fairly, I think it should be a hypothetical sanction available (as a last resort!) for use by a legitimate and fair authority. As a man raised to be a soldier, I believe those with the capacity and authority to use force should be prepared to "take a life to save a life" or ideally, take a life to save many others.



But as a jedi, if you lived in those times, would you have supported westward expansion? We killed horse thieves as you say, but we also killed thousands of American Indians, all innocent so we could steal their land, we almost made extinct the bison as well. How many innocent people were killed on top of the horse thief? If we hadn't killed them then those thieves would still be alive as well as thousands of other human and animal lives.

A true teacher would never tell you what to do. But he would give you the knowledge with which you could decide what would be best for you to do

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15 Feb 2020 19:00 #349795 by Snow Wolf

Fyxe wrote: But as a jedi, if you lived in those times, would you have supported westward expansion? We killed horse thieves as you say, but we also killed thousands of American Indians, all innocent so we could steal their land, we almost made extinct the bison as well. How many innocent people were killed on top of the horse thief? If we hadn't killed them then those thieves would still be alive as well as thousands of other human and animal lives.

I have a feeling that you stopped reading after my second paragraph, and consequently, vastly missed my point. If you'd like to re-read my full response and engage in an intellectual conversation about the ethics of the usage of capital punishment in today's times, I would welcome that discussion. I will not, however, respond to further emotionally charged question begging.

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15 Feb 2020 19:07 #349796 by Fyxe

Snow Wolf wrote:

Fyxe wrote: But as a jedi, if you lived in those times, would you have supported westward expansion? We killed horse thieves as you say, but we also killed thousands of American Indians, all innocent so we could steal their land, we almost made extinct the bison as well. How many innocent people were killed on top of the horse thief? If we hadn't killed them then those thieves would still be alive as well as thousands of other human and animal lives.

I have a feeling that you stopped reading after my second paragraph, and consequently, vastly missed my point. If you'd like to re-read my full response and engage in an intellectual conversation about the ethics of the usage of capital punishment in today's times, I would welcome that discussion. I will not, however, respond to further emotionally charged question begging.



I did read your entire statement and I responded respectfully with an honest response. No emotion and no lack of reading as you want to claim.

A true teacher would never tell you what to do. But he would give you the knowledge with which you could decide what would be best for you to do

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15 Feb 2020 19:16 #349797 by Snow Wolf

Fyxe wrote: I did read your entire statement and I responded respectfully with an honest response. No emotion and no lack of reading as you want to claim.

Your response did not reflect a complete reading and understanding of my position, but I won't challenge you on it.

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15 Feb 2020 20:21 - 15 Feb 2020 21:14 #349798 by OB1Shinobi

Fyxe wrote: but we also killed thousands of American Indians, all innocent so we could steal their land,


What do you mean “we”? WE weren't born yet when those things happened.

Also, Native Americans were not the loving, magical elves that modern people seem to think.


The Most Violent Era In America Was Before Europeans Arrived
By News Staff | August 3rd 2014 11:34 PM
www.science20.com/news_articles/the_most...peans_arrived-141847

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



Aztec Culture: How Many were Killed as Human Sacrifices?
www.historyonthenet.com/aztec-culture-ho...-as-human-sacrifices

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


INDIAN CAPTIVES The practice of captive-taking among North American Indians goes back to prehistoric times.
J. Norman Heard
tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/bxi01

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]





People are complicated.
Last edit: 15 Feb 2020 21:14 by OB1Shinobi.
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15 Feb 2020 21:41 #349799 by KerouacsGhost
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15 Feb 2020 23:44 #349800 by Fyxe

Snow Wolf wrote:

Fyxe wrote: I did read your entire statement and I responded respectfully with an honest response. No emotion and no lack of reading as you want to claim.

Your response did not reflect a complete reading and understanding of my position, but I won't challenge you on it.


Excuse me but you have already challenged me on it??!



OBI, WE means the united states of westward expansion as was mentioned previousley. I also never said the indians were saints so Im not sure why y0ou decide to challenge me as well. I simply made a comment about the death penalty and how the repurcussions of what was quioted led to the attempted genocide of a people. so just because there was voilence before whites arrived are you now saying its was ok for the whites to commit the same thing against them? I just dont see why Im so strongley rebuked here. it was a sijmple comment against the death penalty - something I thought was an accepted statement here. whats the deal?

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