Following the Myth

With or without your consent brother brick I’m using this for the rest of my life.

“I think the main advantage we have as Jedi is that we know our stories and myths are just that. We're not bound by the idea of them being the gospel truth, and that gives us a great deal of freedom in our interpretation of the lessons we can learn from them.”

A million thank you s my man , if you were here, our teq. would be cold and blue! Cheers Br Brick and thank you again.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: ...if you were here, our teq. would be cold and blue!

I'll drink to that!

Cheers Carlos

What I mean by myth of the Jedi is the first 6 movies. Where the Jedi had a temple and lived a certain way and did certain things and held certain ideals. Like no attachment and force powers and upholding justice at the tip of a light saber. Even in the new movies the Jedi are just a myth. Many people dont believe they ever existed! How is that any different than how we on earth take the Jedi? The stories are passed from generation to generation and people want to be what they stood for again. People today want to be midevil knights or samari or other stuff like that. I want to be Jedi. I want to live those things they stood for. King aurthor gets recreated all the time and hes not real so why not Jedi? thats just what I want to try and do.

Why limit yourself to a single set of myths, half of which include Jar Jar?

I hope its OK that I've slightly reordered your comments to make them easier for me to address, I don't believe that in doing this I have changed the meaning of your statements:

Fyxe wrote: I want to be Jedi. I want to live those things they stood for.

What/who is preventing you from doing that?

Fyxe wrote: Where the Jedi had a temple and lived a certain way and did certain things and held certain ideals. Like no attachment and force powers and upholding justice at the tip of a light saber.

The only difficulty with doing this is that its pretty expensive to build a temple, force powers don't exist in our world (at least not anything like in the movies), and if you run around chopping peoples arms off with a laser sword then you're probably going to end up in jail :laugh: .

You could do the whole no attachment thing, but it sounds pretty lonely unless you have a temple of fellow Jedi to do it with. And I'd argue that the Jedi in the movies sucked at the whole no attachment thing anyway. Sure, they had LESS attachment than most, but I'm pretty sure that Qui-Gon Ginn was (emotionally) attached to Obi-wan, who was in turn (emotionally) attached to Anakin and Luke.

Fyxe wrote: Even in the new movies the Jedi are just a myth. Many people dont believe they ever existed! How is that any different than how we on earth take the Jedi?

Because they actually did exist in that universe, whereas they don't in ours. I understand your argument of people wanting to be like medieval knights and samurai, but 1. Knights and Samurais actually existed in our world and 2. There is a reason they don't still exist now.

The Jedi of the film work in their universe because they 'fit' in that universe. Knights work in medieval times because they 'fit' in that time period etc.

To be any of those things today would be too impractical. Worse still, it would simply be a copy of something that came before. In the long run, I don't think it would fulfil you as it would never feel authentic and would therefore never live up to your expectations.

Better to take inspiration from those things you love and create something new which can 'fit' in the time and universe in which we find ourselves now.

Thats my two cents anyway

Jesus is a myth but people try to be like him, right? The practice supernatural healing and prayer against evil, they pretend that wine is blood and bread is his body just like light sabers. They believe he had superpowers that could transform stuff and bring back dead, just like Plageuis. They build massive buildings in his honor. and they also believe he will come back and save them some day. Joseph Cambell said these peiople got that part wrong because they confused poetry with reality but I dont do that. I dont think Jedi will come back but I want to do that other stuff to be like them just like the myth of Jesus. Whats wrong with that? and yes I want to find others that do that too, so that will not leave me alone.

Fyxe wrote: Jesus is a myth but people try to be like him, right?

You and I may consider him a myth. A lot of people, however, consider him to be VERY real.


Again, please define 'trying to be like Jesus'. There is big a difference between 'trying to be like Jesus' as in following the teachings of Jesus, and 'trying to be like Jesus' as in turning water into wine and rising from the dead. People who do the former are accepted by society as Christians or the like. People who do the latter are written off by society as nut jobs.

Fyxe wrote: They practice supernatural healing and prayer against evil, they pretend that wine is blood and bread is his body just like light sabers.

Forgive me but I don't see the parallels between a 2,000 year old supposed 'miracle' and a weapon from a 70's sci-fi film?

Fyxe wrote: They believe he had superpowers that could transform stuff and bring back dead, just like Plageuis.

Yes, but they don't believe that they can do those things. There are a small number who do but, as I've said, society usually deems those people to be insane or con-artists.

Fyxe wrote: They build massive buildings in his honor. and they also believe he will come back and save them some day.

They don't do that so much anymore. In one of the Video's Campbell talks about how you can see what society prioritises by the size of the buildings. 600 years ago, it was churches. Today its Banks.

To build a Jedi Temple big enough to suit your desires requires a lot of money/time/effort. We live in an increasingly secular society, I think you'd struggle to find the funding and labour required for such a thing. I also think you'd struggle to find enough followers to fill it.

Fyxe wrote: I dont think Jedi will come back....

That's probably wise, as they were never here to begin with :laugh:

Fyxe wrote: ...but I want to do that other stuff to be like them just like the myth of Jesus. Whats wrong with that?

As with my Jesus analogy above, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to 'be like a Jedi' as in follow their teachings (which is basically what we try to do here).

But if you're wanting to 'be like a Jedi' as in levitate stuff with your mind, fight bad guys with light sabers, and live in a temple with a bunch of people in beige karate clothes, then disappointed you will be.

Fyxe wrote: and yes I want to find others that do that too, so that will not leave me alone.

Like I say, I can't see this happening, but I wish you every success with it. However, even if you do find a piece of land, build a temple, get people interested in joining you there. You will not be viewed by our society in the same way that the Jedi are viewed by theirs in the movies...

Well the fact that they consider jesus real is a mistake like I said. They got poetry and real life mixed up.

Trying to be like Jesus is not following his teachings but living his teachings. For me it means the teachings of the Jedi. The real teachings of the Jedi, not the made up ones. Catholics believe that their grape juice and biscuits actually do transform into real blood and flesh. And they believe their water bucket at the front of the temple is literally touched by jesus. The catholics are not considered nut jobs either. The light saber is no different than this is what I mean. Like our light sabers are not literally lazers unless we believe they are!

I suppose you don’t live in the bible belt? There is an entire city of gold here! build in modern times as a tribute to jesus! So they are still building stuff like that all over the place. We don’t need to build anything so fancy. They guy that built the city of gold started out in a circus tent!! Lol. Lets get a circus tent and start out! That’s what I mean.

I believe psychic powers do exist. there is so much evicence for it there is no way they cant exist. it just becomes a matter of believing like yoda taught luke to do and we can master those as well.

I really like what Fyxe is saying. I was raised with the bible; one book full of many short stories about a group of people and their heroes. Some of their heroes were strong fighters. Some were great thinkers. Some where seers called prophets. And one... well... one was the "chosen one".

This is really no different from star wars.

Every Sabbath(Saturday), growing up, we went to church and we studied the same stories over and over, taking different lessons from them, making the key characters either role models or cautionary tales. Both Jedi and Sith did this in their studies as well. They studied previous masters. When Palpatine spoke to Anakin about Darth Plaguis that's exactly what he was doing; using Jedi history to teach.

Yes, we know Jedi history isn't real. Obviously. But who said it had to be? Who makes those rules about religion and why would/should we follow them? What child doesn't know the story of the three little pigs? Or could fill in the blanks if you mentioned porridge that was "juuuuust right"? What child doesn't know how to do the hokey pokey? Do you know how old that is? And we keep repeating the story of Santa Claus and have a whole holiday where he try not to go broke buying gifts. Not to mention the tooth fairy.

We do all these things get to be fake as fake can be and yet we seem to be scared to actually use star wars mythology for, from my perspective, the exact same purposes?

If you tell your kid a story about something Yoda did or said and they say "but Yoda isn't real!" just say "and neither is Santa so should I stop buying Christmas presents?"

And there is more star wars material out there than books in the bible. But books in the bible are complimented by thousands upon thousands of Christian books that are basically the "extended universe" of the bible. And like star wars there is a biblical cannon as well as books that were rejected from said cannon. And different religions and denominations either stay strictly to the cannon or they embrace more. It's a choice they make without fear because they cannot accept anyone else influencing their religion.

So... begs the question. Are we afraid of other religions making fun of us? Because it doesn't make that much sense that we have forums for people who believe(d) that Jesus actually walked on water but not for people who want to incorporate more of the star wars myths and legends into their study or spiritual development.

ZealotX wrote: We know Jedi history isn't real. Obviously. But who said it had to be? Who makes those rules about religion and why would/should we follow them? What child doesn't know the story of the three little pigs? Or could fill in the blanks if you mentioned porridge that was "juuuuust right"? What child doesn't know how to do the hokey pokey? Do you know how old that is? And we keep repeating the story of Santa Claus and have a whole holiday where he try not to go broke buying gifts. Not to mention the tooth fairy.

We do all these things get to be fake as fake can be and yet we seem to be scared to actually use star wars mythology for, from my perspective, the exact same purposes?

From my experience, this has to do more with societal expectations/norms; and localized culture than much of anything else. A Christian celebrating Christmas, probably isn't going to be received that well in an Islamic community where the recognized celebrations center around "Eid al-Fitr" for example.

In certain communities, celebrating any religious holiday that falls outside of the cultural norms can even be taken as an insult; regardless if that was the intention. Even living in the U.S where such differences are meant to be celebrated, I've seen people become violently angry when those celebrating "alternative" religious holidays come into the mix.

An example I can give of this, is certain groups of Christians fighting against the "happy holidays" greeting. People within these groups sincerely believe that the holiday season is meant for Christmas, and Christmas only.

So I believe our fear comes more from our intuitive understanding that society in general tends to be intolerant, or otherwise less than understanding of views and celebrations that go against their own established traditions.

Kohadre wrote:

ZealotX wrote: We know Jedi history isn't real. Obviously. But who said it had to be? Who makes those rules about religion and why would/should we follow them? What child doesn't know the story of the three little pigs? Or could fill in the blanks if you mentioned porridge that was "juuuuust right"? What child doesn't know how to do the hokey pokey? Do you know how old that is? And we keep repeating the story of Santa Claus and have a whole holiday where he try not to go broke buying gifts. Not to mention the tooth fairy.

We do all these things get to be fake as fake can be and yet we seem to be scared to actually use star wars mythology for, from my perspective, the exact same purposes?

From my experience, this has to do more with societal expectations/norms; and localized culture than much of anything else. A Christian celebrating Christmas, probably isn't going to be received that well in an Islamic community where the recognized celebrations center around "Eid al-Fitr" for example.

In certain communities, celebrating any religious holiday that falls outside of the cultural norms can even be taken as an insult; regardless if that was the intention. Even living in the U.S where such differences are meant to be celebrated, I've seen people become violently angry when those celebrating "alternative" religious holidays come into the mix.

An example I can give of this, is certain groups of Christians fighting against the "happy holidays" greeting. People within these groups sincerely believe that the holiday season is meant for Christmas, and Christmas only.

So I believe our fear comes more from our intuitive understanding that society in general tends to be intolerant, or otherwise less than understanding of views and celebrations that go against their own established traditions.

I hear you but Christmas is actually a pagan holy day (sun worship) that was adopted by Christianity. When I was religious I would bring this up a lot because I couldn't understand why Christians would defend it when the bible was clearly against any kind of idolatry or mixing of gentile/pagan practices.

I believe the person responsible for this, in large part, was Constantine. Why? Because he "converted" to Christianity after having been a sun worshiper. However, since it appears that this was in his political best interest, he had a motive to blend paganism (to some degree) into Christianity. This happened so long ago few people even still question it. And this wasn't the only time.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101983605

The "saints", and other christian concepts were used to hide pagan beliefs: The Trinity, "Mother of God", Easter Eggs, etc. Many Christians don't even know where paganism ends and their religion begins. So, I hear you and I'm not saying you're wrong. However, what I am saying is that there isn't an infinite wall of separation between cultures and religions. Religions will adopt whatever they want just like the bible adopted the Epic of Gilgamesh and simply changed it to fit their narrative. This kind of mixing and borrowing has been happening since the very beginning. The more people like something the more willing they will be to adopt it. Who doesn't like star wars? (well... who among us doesn't like star wars?)

We’re based off the philosophy of the Jedi of the movies in the sense we’re Jedi however I feel it’s based on the person the Jedi no a group or a set core philosophy or religious views . There are a mutal agreement on certain things but, you walk your own path and your might be different than mine and vice versa.

Learn to walk your own path.

Euhemerization is the word you're looking for. Christians co-opted many pagan traditions and used them as teaching points for their theology to the point that some of the practices are essentially a part of the Christian tradition. Everything is written in a context and is either based off of or reacting to something else in a certain sense. The Genesis creation myth in Abrahamic religions is almost certainly a polemic meant to contrast the Enuma Elish.

This thread is about litigating why we (at TotJO) don't celebrate life day while wearing brown robes and waving around lightsabers. At this point, I think that all of us TotJO members generally appreciate the value of many other religion's traditions while recognizing the ability of them to be problematic. I also think that the FAQ I copied into the last of these similar threads answers most of the OP

Rex wrote: Euhemerization is the word you're looking for. Christians co-opted many pagan traditions and used them as teaching points for their theology to the point that some of the practices are essentially a part of the Christian tradition. Everything is written in a context and is either based off of or reacting to something else in a certain sense. The Genesis creation myth in Abrahamic religions is almost certainly a polemic meant to contrast the Enuma Elish.

This thread is about litigating why we (at TotJO) don't celebrate life day while wearing brown robes and waving around lightsabers. At this point, I think that all of us TotJO members generally appreciate the value of many other religion's traditions while recognizing the ability of them to be problematic. I also think that the FAQ I copied into the last of these similar threads answers most of the OP

I've never heard that word before so thank you for teaching me something new.

As for wearing robes and celebrating Life day I didn't get that from the OP. It's certainly not what I was thinking in my response. I don't think Jedi should wear robes anymore than Christians should dress like Samson or Elijah. But we know the stories and pass them down as part of a tradition. My real name is theophoric as are many if not most other people. Most biblical writers are said to have written by "inspiration". We too are inspired by star wars. What form that inspiration takes doesn't have to be scripted or enumerated or codified. But if some are inspired by star wars in deeper ways, what's wrong with that? The question of it not being real shouldn't even be part of the conversation just like Noah's ark and whether the flood was global or local isn't what most Christians are thinking about. And that didn't stop Christians from building one in Kentucky.

I think that some of us are scared we wont be taken seriously by other religions if we look too much like a bunch of star wars nerds.

Oh yes! fear and scared are paths to the dark side!

So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth

Know what that means? People dont drink the liquid (join the mythology) because its full of disease (corruption). If you are hot then follow the teachings of the myth as they were meant to be followed! If you are cold then go away and that is fine because you have other things going on. But dont be lukewarm! dont invent your own version and call it this version. That is disease. A friend showed me an amazing site where the teachings are taught in original form as they were meant to be lived. I want to live that way.

As for light sabers, whats wrong with learning a light saber? other religions have the cross or that funny star thing or a pentacle or whatever, so why not a light saber for our myth following? are you ashamed? or lukewamr? I think a temple is in order as well. I found one on amazon for 180 bucks! it can be a traveling tent revival. The jedi recruited. if we weant this to grow lets grow it! we can travel from town to down like jedi did from planet ot planet and find other Jjedi! that is what they did so thats what I do!

Fyxe wrote: Oh yes! fear and scared are paths to the dark side!

So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth

Know what that means? People dont drink the liquid (join the mythology) because its full of disease (corruption). If you are hot then follow the teachings of the myth as they were meant to be followed! If you are cold then go away and that is fine because you have other things going on. But dont be lukewarm! dont invent your own version and call it this version. That is disease. A friend showed me an amazing site where the teachings are taught in original form as they were meant to be lived. I want to live that way.

As for light sabers, whats wrong with learning a light saber? other religions have the cross or that funny star thing or a pentacle or whatever, so why not a light saber for our myth following? are you ashamed? or lukewamr? I think a temple is in order as well. I found one on amazon for 180 bucks! it can be a traveling tent revival. The jedi recruited. if we weant this to grow lets grow it! we can travel from town to down like jedi did from planet ot planet and find other Jjedi! that is what they did so thats what I do!

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It's honestly difficult to tell whether your are being authentic in your posts, or just trolling for a drawn out laugh.

If you want to be a homeless; nomadic, religious vagabond - by all means pursue that interest. Having been a homeless transient myself prior in life however, I can personally assure you that the romanticized vision of "wanderlust" the public has is nothing like what life is like when homeless.

You will be hungry, thirsty, dirty, smelly; and at constant risk of attack from both other homeless individuals, as well as members of the general public. Police will quickly become your personal enemy, as they run you out from town after town.

no body ever said anything about homeless??

none of these poeple were...

https://www.jonasclark.com/americas-greatest-tent-preachers/

and whats more, you are supposed to be like some sort of apprentice or something right? like do you have a trainer? did you go through these lessons of IP? this comes from those very teachings. Why dont you know these things?

Sorry... was that aggressive? dont mean it that way, Im just wondering,

Fyxe wrote: and whats more, you are supposed to be like some sort of apprentice or something right? like do you have a trainer? did you go through these lessons of IP? this comes from those very teachings. Why dont you know these things?

Good questions.

Yes, I am currently within apprenticeship here at TOTJO; specifically under Knight Firewolf.

As a prerequisite to this apprenticeship, yes; I did in fact complete the IP and all it's associated lessons. However, since I joined TOTJO over 6 years ago (time flies) the IP has undergone numerous changes, edits, and adaptations to bring it to it's present format. Because of that, the IP I underwent training in; and the IP that you are undergoing training within are going to have some fundamental differences when compared.

Also, even though I completed the IP in years prior; it does not mean that I agreed with every lesson or element of doctrine it promoted. That's not entirely the point of the IP either, as it's meant more to teach you how to think rather than what to think. Although we have a doctrine here at TOTJO, we do not offer the IP as a means through which to indoctrinate our members.

When I undertook and completed the IP, it was not our intended goal nor purpose to go out into the world and proselytize our beliefs upon the general public in the manner that a Jehovah's witness or other wandering ministry would. The temple at that time had more of a mindset that those meant for a path centered upon Jediism, would naturally find their own way.

There is (or was) not as much of a drive to convert others to our faith either; as we did not offer the salvation that Christianity or other abrahamic faiths would seek to offer. TOTJO has not, and to my knowledge does not promote the worship of a single deity; nor pantheon of deities that would be common to other faiths.

Nor, do we worship the Force; despite having our community centered on the subject.

To assume that I do not "know these things" because I fail to live as a literal, unquestioning embodiment of them is itself a logical fallacy, and again indicates a desire to adhere to what I would describe as "fundamental extremism" Jediism.

-Koh.