Is the Dark Side Stronger?

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03 Sep 2019 13:56 #343133 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Is the Dark Side Stronger?
Being better suited to survive in a given environment improves ones life expectancy in it statistically. However, unlike any Jedi path, the evolution of species is not oriented towards any goal. Slowly biasing the gene pool in favour of alleles that were more lucky in past generations isn't necessarily an improvement or perfecting anyone's nature, because there really isn't a standard of goodness to measure any given state against. One can only say that some gene pools got "better" than their earlier counterparts by beholding all of the variations that didn't make it as well for as long as the ones that did. It's always retrospective.
In a Jedi path, on the other hand, the individual can decide what aspect of themselves they wish to change and what they would like it to be like in future, and measure progress as a change in proximity towards the set goal.

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03 Sep 2019 14:04 #343136 by Uzima Moto

Gisteron wrote: Being better suited to survive in a given environment improves ones life expectancy in it statistically. However, unlike any Jedi path, the evolution of species is not oriented towards any goal. Slowly biasing the gene pool in favour of alleles that were more lucky in past generations isn't necessarily an improvement or perfecting anyone's nature, because there really isn't a standard of goodness to measure any given state against. One can only say that some gene pools got "better" than their earlier counterparts by beholding all of the variations that didn't make it as well for as long as the ones that did. It's always retrospective.
In a Jedi path, on the other hand, the individual can decide what aspect of themselves they wish to change and what they would like it to be like in future, and measure progress as a change in proximity towards the set goal.


This is the difference between Consciousness and Sentience.. Conscious beings make conscious change..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
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03 Sep 2019 14:23 #343139 by Kazat0
Replied by Kazat0 on topic Is the Dark Side Stronger?
This is like saying who is stronger a couch potato or an MMA/Shaolin monk. Obvious the MMA fighter right? well this is how it is with the two sides of the force. The force in itself is equal but dark side users deliberately focus on power and strength thus making them stronger than most Jedi who focus more on peace and helping others. (even in the actual star wars fiction sith acolytes could rival most knights due to the difference in training and minimum requirements to even enter the sith order)

"The road to good and evil is wide and filled with many but the path to neutrality is narrow and empty."
-Nichos Skywalker
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03 Sep 2019 19:07 #343168 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Is the Dark Side Stronger?

VixensVengeance wrote: I see a lot of misunderstanding of the dark side here. It's not something found in a comic book like steam says, and it's not about dominance and emotion minus logic, it's also not an absence of light as in non existent. So in "light" (pun) of that, it's best that the OP first define what is actually meant when using the term "dark side"?

Beyond that I feel the dark side followers are much more logically based than light siders. This forum is proof enough of this. It is rife with claims of supernatural qualities and abilities. This is something you will not find on dark side sites that have any worth to them. Those things are quickly squashed in favor of actual tangable results in the real world. That's what the dark side is about. It is stronger because it is based in reality and not flights of fancy that one can never ultimately achieve. Self improvement is a lie. One never changed simply by pretending to be something they are not after reading a book. Change comes through hard truth and hard work towards goals that are tangibly capable of being accomplished. That is all.


Yeah.... no.

First, while we're at it I think we should define strength. Before we can be successful in coming up with an answer that everyone (Jedi, Grey, sith) can agree on we would first have to start at the same starting point and agree on the same conclusion. Someone who is a "master" is not necessarily going to agree with someone who is a novice. So you can't simply judge and say the dark side is this and that's better. It depends on how you apply it and a master of one should be able to beat a novice of the other regardless of which side is which. Why? Because the light and dark are illusionary constructs that we add to the force because we close one eye when we look at it and hence we lose depth perception.

The dark side is an application of the Force that is wholly individualistic and self-interested. It's not that most people misunderstand the dark side. It's that people who practice the dark side don't usually go all the way. In almost every case it is illegal to do so. Even if you wanted to, you fear the consequences. You could rob a bank for example. That would definitely help break any financial chains you might have. You might even think up sinister ways to use other people to help pull it off and use them as pawns and scapegoats to try to avoid the law. So why don't all sith do it? Because they're limited by or constrained either by fear or by the light side which still holds some sway. The other thing is that I don't think the dark side is something a person is constantly connected to. Rather you draw from it when needed, just as we draw from the Force in general, as needed.

But situations don't demand the dark side all the time. Imagine if someone bought you ice cream and you responded by trying to murder them? Or imagine if you have a wife or girlfriend (as if most of you don't) and she loves you and you're constantly trying to manipulate her into doing things for you. People do this to some degree in relationships all the time but do you sit there and plot without considering her feelings?

In those moments where one COULD use the dark side then it becomes a temptation. Luke wasn't really tempted until he had to confront Vader; and only then did Yoda consider him a Jedi knight. Why? Because at this point for Yoda, seeing the devestation of the Sith (canon) and Anakin's fall, his biggest concern was not training someone who might use that power and those teachings and then go to the dark side just because they have cookies.

The Sith would use the dark side because it was the faster easier path. All they wanted was the power. That doesn't make one strong. It's stronger to resist that temptation. It takes more strength to use self-discipline. Think about the scores of overweight Americans. I could use to shed a few pounds myself and know how difficult it is to not just exercise but eat better. While a Jedi might divide their time, energy, and focus on both a sith might forego the whole eating better thing and just exercise. One may not actually be better than the other depending on how many calories one is burning vs. the other who isn't consuming them in the first place.

The physical change that happens in canon with overuse of the dark side is a visual lesson about how it trades your life (long term vitality) for short term gain. Not a lot of Sith live as long as Yoda. Some people would rather live shorter life, burning brighter and hotter and then dying out. Others would prefer to burn less brightly and have peace and tranquility. Which one is better is a matter personal choice.
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03 Sep 2019 23:36 #343198 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Is the Dark Side Stronger?
I might controversially say that the dark side is the essence of it, with the light side being the application of it. Trick being we cannot know what it is so instead it's about the way we try to connect to it. The dark side is seeking the essence of the Force and the light the application of our efforts in being connected to it. Focus wholly on the essence orwhollyon the application, leads to being too selfish or too selfless. A Jedi perhaps seeks balance, such that the dark side isn't avoided but approached in a more methodological fashion in training compared to the interactive (open) bridging of natures to connect essences. I feel compelled to assume that the more complex a thing is, the more of the Force is involved in a particular thing.

IMO the light of the Force within is so bright it appears dark by virtue of being beyond our capacity to register it in terms relative to our existence. Seeking that darkness is dangerous insofar as it is full of distraction, and distraction leads to denial, and denial leads to desperation, which leads to suffering and so on. A Jedi does not avoid it, but rather tackles it with precision and skill to progress on their path. As if the movies were a visual metaphor :side:

So a feeling of power depends on the least demanding path through the configuration space, while the exertion of power might be the fastest? A factor of that might be the weighting of how time plays into the demands for energy used to the results generated, and potential unexpected results. For me I like balance, efficiency and connection to explore things like pattern recognition, and increased complexity in mental mapping.... As those three things afford me more time and energy to function in meeting those things without losing traction. Loss of traction can occur when the power is greater then the task, or when the task is greater then the power....... so it's like a balance between reaching out with the Force on one hand and holding a reserve of it in the other, in simplistic terms.

So in summary, lol, the dark side seems stronger initially to me but then requires practices which make distribution of energy to the task a bit more difficult, requiring things more like ritual etc as 'supports' to plumb the depths. While the light side is harder to connect to initially, but it's practices becoming free of supports ie self supporting.

TLDR dark side initially, but light side in longer term... noting balance needed between both else a sole focus on either will generate a feedback loop which will generate dangerous dependencies, IMO.

... but I don't call that a grey path, rather a light path. To me a grey path would balance periodic practices of wholly dark and wholly light :unsure:

Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
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04 Sep 2019 13:53 #343225 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Is the Dark Side Stronger?
If the Force was a person... like a Yahweh for example...

It would start off "dark side" because it would only know itself; only care about itself. Babies really don't care one bit about you getting 8 hours of sleep. You exist to serve them. If babies had Force lighting it would be the end of the human race because no one would have them.

As the Force grew it would start to project its awareness outside of itself. After all, its previous environment was a fleshy cage with no toys, pets, people, clouds, sunsets, ice cream, etc. Once these things start getting introduced into the child's environment its much easier for the child to invest in it. But all these things are correctly viewed as part of a cycle; Yin and Yang spinning.

When a human has a child, not all, but for many humans it is a growth experience because that responsibility helps to further mature the person from adult to parent. As a parent, the more you act like a child the more danger you put your child in. So this "dark side" baby requires a very "light side" parent just to sustain it long enough to the point that it too can mature and think about things and people outside itself.

The act of creation... the interaction with creation... one starts out being a separate organism and then discovering that you aren't and that you, much like a stem cell, are a blank canvas that can become anything, and find your place in the world. With maturity one always goes from darkness to light. Whether its from womb to hospital room or from big bang to galaxies and stars.

"Let there be light"
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04 Sep 2019 22:06 #343262 by rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic Is the Dark Side Stronger?
I always took the Force as something divine, beyond my grasp and understanding. That being said, if it had sides and there was some scale to measure them, that answer would be beyond me as well. It just IS.(Or is it?)

Probably the martial arts example earlier is the closest I could ever get to understanding it, or at least, seeing it in a way I could understand.(There is a difference)

rugadd
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04 Sep 2019 22:09 #343263 by Kobos
Replied by Kobos on topic Is the Dark Side Stronger?

rugadd wrote: I always took the Force as something divine, beyond my grasp and understanding. That being said, if it had sides and there was some scale to measure them, that answer would be beyond me as well. It just IS.(Or is it?)

Probably the martial arts example earlier is the closest I could ever get to understanding it, or at least, seeing it in a way I could understand.(There is a difference)


Nice Rugadd! This is fairly close to how I feel, same with martial arts example. I like the music one too though, there's beautiful classical and beautiful metal and each has it's place. Thing is it's (music) all the measured vibration of air.

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Kobos

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
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05 Sep 2019 00:50 #343289 by _Vergere_

elizabeth wrote: I dont actually believe the force is either light or dark. I think that the intent comes from the individual.


Well said.

The only dark side you need fear is the one in your own heart.


Listen well: Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask is a trick.
You will find no truth in me.

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25 Oct 2019 08:26 #344813 by Malicious
As Yoda once said on the subject " quicker yes , stronger no . "

=_= Malicious (+_+)

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