Can't be a Jedi if you support Trump...?

I think I said this in one of my modding posts. No this is not one of those.

You have the right to speak any message you want, I would also defend that right. The only thing that comes into play in the public space is absolutely no violence of any sort, meaning you need to really consider your method of delivery. Diplomacy is what made the US come into being, if 13 states with different needs didn't come together at tables to talk about how to fix a bigger issue then well maybe no US as we know it.

The thing with the free-speech part of our social contract, particularly in The US is you either are free to speak or be free from speech. That is the absolute sadly. Everybody wants free speech when it comes down to it but it's been kinda changed into this idea of a sliding scale. Socially that's actually typical with societal movements and societal manners tend to do it naturally. Thus far the US has avoided WIDE-SPREAD violence in quite some time, that seems to be the fear now. I have faith that there are enough people willing to go to the tables and talk about major issues. That it will not become a battle of the majority because what we are being shown is never the majority.

Some of this makes things very tricky when we consider pubic dialog in private spaces but that's a whole essays worth to manage and for another time

Just some thoughts,

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

To be fair, part of the Jedi belief, at least here, is that morals aren't absolute. So perhaps society has simply determined that the Nazi mindset as a whole is considered fascist. Not saying I agree or disagree, because my own mother admits, as much as we don't like it, that Nazis are allowed to think that way, as long as they don't explicitly incite violence toward anybody.

Kobos wrote: That is an expression of opinion not directed at others in a direct level. The only time free-speech has been curtailed has been under that premise, that includes when you were scolded and politely asked to change your wording not you message to fit a basic set of guidelines. At that point you "stormed off" Saying you would not return yet here you are complaining that your free speech was infringed, which since I am not the government, I cannot possibly do in a legal sense, I believe it was you who could not abide by this simple set of rules.

Kobos, I'll be clear. I do not like you. Your set me on edge. You make my hackles come up.

Why should I have to "change my wording", (context being the example I gave with autistic children). Why? Is there another unwritten rule where it's not okay to use autistic children in an example as I did? No, there isn't. Just like there isn't a rule where it's not okay to show appreciation for Hitler in a civilized manner. I wonder, do you just arbitrarily make up rules as you go? Whatever you don't like, you censor people for doing, saying, or discussing? Is that how it works with you?

Kobos wrote: "To put it more bluntly:
Do not antagonize another member based on history or another sensitive subject.

Let's define "antagonize", shall we?

"Cause someone to become hostile". Well, if that doesn't end free speech, I don't know what else would.

Kobos wrote: Do not personally attack others in public or in PM

Don't call people "idiots" and such. Yes, that's always been clear. However, it's cute that you now govern PRIVATE messages here.

Kobos wrote: Do not discuss other members/guests of this site in the public forums

Yes... we'd not want the public knowing of vermin problems within the esteemed Jedi Order.

Kobos wrote: Practice empathy and perspective taking.

No, I won't practice empathy. Perspective taking? I do that when it's practical and useful.

Kobos wrote: Dialogue about ideas and do not attack people
Take breaks when needed
And use this space appropriately.
Failure to abide by the above will result in suspension or permanent ban at the discretion of Council.

I'm sure it will and I've ceased to care.

Not a single person has to like anyone. They do have to have manners by all means feel free to leave. The TOS is pretty clear that that's the rules as put here: https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/114-Announcements/121257-behavior-unbecoming#321555

You know the link in the red box that by using the website at all you agree too. Now this is a public forum provided at the expense of a private entity. There is 0 reason for you to stay here no one is telling you to stay here. You may freely leave or stay and abide by the rules set forth by the orginization that is hosting you or find another private forum to go and speak which ever way you choose. But you may not have it both ways.

Peace,
Kobos

Kobos wrote: I think I said this in one of my modding posts. No this is not one of those.

You have the right to speak any message you want, I would also defend that right. The only thing that comes into play in the public space is absolutely no violence of any sort, meaning you need to really consider your method of delivery. Diplomacy is what made the US come into being, if 13 states with different needs didn't come together at tables to talk about how to fix a bigger issue then well maybe no US as we know it.

The thing with the free-speech part of our social contract, particularly in The US is you either are free to speak or be free from speech. That is the absolute sadly. Everybody wants free speech when it comes down to it but it's been kinda changed into this idea of a sliding scale. Socially that's actually typical with societal movements and societal manners tend to do it naturally. Thus far the US has avoided WIDE-SPREAD violence in quite some time, that seems to be the fear now. I have faith that there are enough people willing to go to the tables and talk about major issues. That it will not become a battle of the majority because what we are being shown is never the majority.

Some of this makes things very tricky when we consider pubic dialog in private spaces but that's a whole essays worth to manage and for another time

Just some thoughts,

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Ah... we must watch our delivery very very carefully....


NEWS FLASH! If you don't allow people to express themselves (in the way they do), and keep sending them these irritating long winded warning messages, YOU ARE IMPEDING THEIR FREE SPEECH by means of... oh my god! THREATENING ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION... and why? Because OTHERS can't emotionally handle people who might not be so freaking careful in how they word things. We're not all Jedi here. We're not all "nice nice". We're not all soft spoken beta males either. Some of us are on the alpha scale. I know, unheard of.... Some of us would likely also punch your face in if you said half the crap you have said here to our faces. That's not a threat either. It's speculation.

Kobos wrote: Not a single person has to like anyone. They do have to have manners by all means feel free to leave. The TOS is pretty clear that that's the rules as put here: https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/114-Announcements/121257-behavior-unbecoming#321555

You know the link in the red box that by using the website at all you agree too. Now this is a public forum provided at the expense of a private entity. There is 0 reason for you to stay here no one is telling you to stay here. You may freely leave or stay and abide by the rules set forth by the orginization that is hosting you or find another private forum to go and speak which ever way you choose. But you may not have it both ways.

Peace,
Kobos

Manners... Oh please, do give us a nice bolded list of what MANNERS you expect... oh great apprentice of this digital Jedi order.

Remember when you were getting trolled what was it you called for?

Also, the manners are available via the link in my previous post. The ignorance of what you are saying about free speech on a private platform is very ironic.

The temple is well within it's right to set guidelines. The antagonize guideline, as I read it, is to not be a dick. I've started a very controversial thread, but I did it without pissing people off as I don't think it accomplishes anything more efficiently when you just piss people off just cuz. And empathy, from my understanding, is definitely a Jedi aspect, as this is predominantly a Jedi temple, so I don't think having that is wrong at all.

Kobos wrote: Remember when you were getting trolled what was it you called for?

I wish I was trolling at this point but I'm not. I am simply fighting for what I believe in, against a perceived enemy. Is that against your ToS as well?

Deimos wrote: The temple is well within it's right to set guidelines. The antagonize guideline, as I read it, is to not be a dick. I've started a very controversial thread, but I did it without pissing people off as I don't think it accomplishes anything more efficiently when you just piss people off just cuz. And empathy, from my understanding, is definitely a Jedi aspect, as this is predominantly a Jedi temple, so I don't think having that is wrong at all.

... a Jedi temple which welcomes Sith... Remember that.

Then leave it seems like you just like bashing your head into a wall at this point. You believe in your right to say whatever you want in someone else's house and I really doubt you would allow any one to yell anything they wanted at anytime in your home.

Y'all are spineless doormats if you think we should let Nazis do this again. If you think those concentration camps at the border aren't concentration camps at this point, you are part of the problem.

And I didn't say all Trump supporters are Nazis. But if you support Trump you cannot be a Jedi. Period. End of sentence.

I'm not targeting anyone specifically here. But if you can't even come out and say that Trump is wrong. Or, short of that, that Nazis are wrong. Then you are against me. And therefore, I am against you.

And I'll be damned before I'm part of a group of people that weak. You're only giving room for fascism if you aren't fighting it in some way. You are passively accepting and tacitly giving them your seal of approval.

That's all I'm going to say on this matter. Now I'll return to my self-imposed exile remembering exactly why I left this "organization" in the first place. Bad taste in the mouth and a whole crowd of "Jedi" who wouldn't or couldn't fight Palpatine himself if he showed up to take over the world.

Phoenix, If you refuse to follow the TOS, I don't know what you want to accomplish here.

But they apply to everyone, not just Jedi. Giving special treatment because you are of a different philosophy should not be applicable.

Lykeios wrote: Y'all are spineless doormats if you think we should let Nazis do this again. If you think those concentration camps at the border aren't concentration camps at this point, you are part of the problem.

And I didn't say all Trump supporters are Nazis. But if you support Trump you cannot be a Jedi. Period. End of sentence.

I'm not targeting anyone specifically here. But if you can't even come out and say that Trump is wrong. Or, short of that, that Nazis are wrong. Then you are against me. And therefore, I am against you.

And I'll be damned before I'm part of a group of people that weak. You're only giving room for fascism if you aren't fighting it in some way. You are passively accepting and tacitly giving them your seal of approval.

That's all I'm going to say on this matter. Now I'll return to my self-imposed exile remembering exactly why I left this "organization" in the first place. Bad taste in the mouth and a whole crowd of "Jedi" who wouldn't or couldn't fight Palpatine himself if he showed up to take over the world.

Okay... That's it....
I have restrained myself from saying this through the weird Nazi issue, through my friend being called a Nazi... and through some weird rule about respecting Hitler. Now... I'm saying it.

THE HOLOCAUST NEVER FREAKING HAPPENED!

ALso... There are ZERO death camps... ZERO "FEMA Camps".

What will this accomplish? This just looks like a tantrum because the site isn't the way you want it to be. At least from the outside. And literally ONE person said he was a Nazi. NO ONE else did.

PS: Not mad just using caps for emphasis

Deimos wrote: What will this accomplish? Really?

Perhaps get some people to question what they have been told is true their entire lives. Also, wasn't I clear? I'm fighting against a perceived enemy.

Complain about your free speech, play cup game of trolling, forget the point of when you got trolled, lash out......

Kobos wrote: Complain about your free speech, play cup game of trolling, forget the point of when you got trolled, lash out......

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Yet, I'm not trolling and I've made that clear.

But only ONE directly said he was a Nazi. Hell I'm on his side, and it seems everyone except Lyk was also, but he only expressed opinion and never pointed a metaphorical finger. So whats the issue?