Special Needs Society

Lukezilla wrote: Deimos, it doesn't need to be. Yes, hearing other opinions can and sometimes should be uncomfortable but it doesn't need to be met with vitriol.

Phoenix, again, it seems like you're the only one here with delicate sensibilities. And parts of you that are unhealthy should be denied in the same way you prune a tree of weeds and dead limbs, things that harm it and make it less beautiful. That's personal growth.

First, my sensibilities aren't delicate. Second, please define "unhealthy" and "beautiful" in relation to me.

Meanwhile, I'll say this about myself. I am beautiful and I love myself. I love every scar and crack and being able to say that is proof of great personal growth on my part, whether you agree or not. I still remember when I hated myself and wanted to die. The things trauma can do, eh?

Deimos wrote: Fair point. I feel that it's a difference of perspective. Phoenix may not see this as vitriolic, but some may. It's not what you say, it's how you say something that people pay attention to.

Indeed and we're all individuals, aren't we? We have our experiences and we have our ways of saying things. Some accept those ways, some don't... and do you know what the most amusing thing is to me? The ones who don't, often claim to be champions of compassion and tolerance.

I'll start by saying, I'm sorry you've gone through such trauma and I'm glad you don't hate yourself or want to die and that's sincere. What I mean by unhealthy are things that cause hate, aggression and vitriol towards others. By beautiful, In the context of the tree analogy, I mean something that has been cultivated by careful, thoughtful and intentional growth. If you feel like you're getting growth out of being disrespectful to others for disagreeing then so be it, I just hope you're able to open yourself up in the future.

I think the definition of disrespect is one of the areas of conflict here.

Lukezilla wrote: I'll start by saying, I'm sorry you've gone through such trauma and I'm glad you don't hate yourself or want to die and that's sincere. What I mean by unhealthy are things that cause hate, aggression and vitriol towards others. By beautiful, In the context of the tree analogy, I mean something that has been cultivated by careful, thoughtful and intentional growth. If you feel like you're getting growth out of being disrespectful to others for disagreeing then so be it, I just hope you're able to open yourself up in the future.

I don't consider hate to be unhealthy, certainly not in how I apply it in my life. Furthermore, my passion has been cultivated by careful, thoughtful, and intentional growth. I find my vitriol as you call it... far better than the apathy I once felt towards nearly everything.

To each their own.

I would love to keep this discussion going so I am going to throw a real life example from my employment here to see what you all think

So, I work on the disciplinary side of education, basivally when kids are removed from normal classes repeatedly for disciplinary reasons the are moved into the roster of my classes. Now on top of this many are given a 504, this is an individual education plan that often includes accomidaition for different underlying health and mental health issues. In the 4 short years I have worked in the education system I have seen the actual defining disorders become very lax(IMHO). Anyways one of the accomodations is a room we have set aside for students in "crisis" where they can go for quiet time, or supervised study and counciling access. Being in this room excuses you from class that period or day. Many times though when I am in this room as a supervisor I see students that I strongly believe take advantage of this resource. Taking a nap because you do not want to go to English because it gives you anxiety is not reasonable to me (I want to note there is a difference between someone having a panic attack due to stimuli and someone just being bothered).

Now for context from my side. I came from a fast paced marketing firm, there was no breaks in this setting, even going home after work time many points led to me working nights remotely due to the need. I find that in many cases this room can actually provide a disservice to students with legitimate issues because employers are not required to provide a similar resource.

A little more from my story, I have clinical depression, though I was diagnosed in my 20's my parents began keeping notes on it since I was younger (about 7th grade in the US) because certain indicators were there (poor grades, beginning to cut classes consistently, focus on negatives constantly) they just did not want to rush into medication, however, they did seek out a councilor at school that I met with, but wanted to see if I would out grow it or if it was temporary (plus my parents are old school). So, I could see where this resource would have been a huge help to me in high school, however, I also know I would have abused it for sure.

So I want to ask, is this "reasonable" accomodation or are we taking it to far? How should we respond to those that appear to be taking advantage in excess of this resource? Do those individuals cheapen the idea by taking advantage of it?

Much Love, Respect, and Peace,
Kobos

P.S. Phoenix I will grant you respect for starting the conversation so you have my thanks for that even if I disagree with how. It was not without effort from others for this discussion to turn into something tangible and worth having.

Wow! There was like 4 pages of "I don't like the way you said that."

I just take the message and move on from there! I've known lots of people in real life I felt I wanted to wring their neck when they opened their mouth, but because I trained to breath(calming) and think before I responded(I am a simple minded person but I can do this much) I often came to realize what they meant and could respond to that. For clarification, I see getting offended(and immediately acting on it) as a weakness to avoid. It gets in the way of figuring things out and it contributes to almost every mistake I've ever made. Mistakes like completely ignoring OPs in favor of personal attacks(even if they are politely said). That kind of stuff should be in PMs instead of wasting my study time with a soap opera. If one really cares, they should reach out to the individual in private.

Seriously, if someone isn't good at communicating, I can use it as a chance to get good at listening.

Everyone, every business, and every group is expected to roll out the welcome mat and bend to the needs and wants of all these "specials", including having to build another washroom for men and women who are having an identity crisis.

LOL, but if you are the one who doesn't want them in "your" bathroom doesn't that make YOU the "special"? They're not the ones asking for a special bathroom. You are. I don't think you realize just how much you "are the thing" that you're complaining about.

Phoenix Vidensia wrote:
I'll give you an experience of mine... I was that kid who wasn't allowed sugar. "ADHD" they said. The type the school gives you pills for when they can't deal with your behavioural quirks. So, when it was ice cream day, I wasn't allowed any. I had to watch all the other kids enjoying ice cream, while I wondered how anyone could be so cruel. That's how it was and that's how it should be. Sure, it wasn't fair but neither is life. It wasn't up to the school to bend to my needs, it was my problem and my parent's problem. I dealt with it.

It's as if people are so obsessed with making "specials" feel included and accepted, they have transformed society into one giant special needs classroom.

Wow... While I hate making a point that gets into someone's personal experience (because it always runs the risk of being taken personally), it was NOT giving you ice cream that was the "special treatment". And you're basically saying, that's how it should have been because life wasn't fair (to you). But they made a special exception for you. It would have been easier for them to give you ice cream like everyone else. Someone had to remember and keep track of the fact that you were different from other kids and modify their own behavior in a way that had almost nothing to do with their job description.

And it wasn't simply so they didn't have to deal with your outbursts but also the fact that you couldn't learn as well if you were hyped up on sugar. And other children wouldn't be able to learn as well if you were disturbing the class. And other kids may not have understood your special need or cared that sugar made you react differently. And maybe, just maybe, they would have judged you harshly and not wanted to be around you. So by giving you special treatment they made your life and the lives of the other kids around you better, instead of making you stay home, not get an education or be forced to be home schooled.

When I was in school ADHD wasn't really 'a thing'. Kids who acted up in school simply got in trouble. They may have been sent to the principle's office or given detention, had to write sentences, etc. But punished; for being different. But why should you be punished simply for having a different brain? or different skin? or different gender identity? Why should you be punished for the way you were born? Why should you be punished for a choice you never had?

Just because life isn't fair doesn't mean that we as a society have to maintain and support that unfairness as a status quo. We can be a check and balance against unfairness. We can be a light in whatever darkness we encounter. Most of the universe is not alive. We are. If the universe was fair life wouldn't exist because it is the extreme minority. But that doesn't mean the extreme minority doesn't have validity. That doesn't mean we don't deserve to live or have a place or be accepted. As an individual you can be just as close minded and bigoted as you want. But if society is changing then why fight that change? Why not go with that flow? Maybe it's better. Does it hurt you that someone else is no longer being hurt? Does it negatively impact your life that someone born with the wrong parts is defecating in a stall next to you when there was a time that humans didn't have toilets or plumbing or any of these things at all?

If life isn't fair and that should be accepted then shouldn't one also accept the other side? Do you hate pets? Because isn't it wildly unfair that certain animals are special (to us) and because they're either cute or possibly obedient or just because we like them... they don't have to hunt or worry about where to live. We give them food, a home, medical protection, toys, clean up their poop, and on and on and on. That's not fair either. Why do you accept that? And wait. Isn't it time we talk about babies? Why do they get special treatment? Why do babies not have to work for a living? I have to work. Why can't they? Why do babies of any gender get to use any bathroom the kids parent chooses? How is that fair? What if that baby has a penis? Why should they get to be in the vagina bathroom? So what if the parent is out in public with a child of the opposite gender! Have a stranger of the same gender change that baby in the correct bathroom!

Babies should wipe their own behind and pick themselves up by the bootie straps. Why should anyone get special treatment?