What is the force?

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25 Aug 2019 17:01 #342189 by Kazat0
Replied by Kazat0 on topic What is the force?
Gisteron, well actually magickal powers HAVE been discovered and many wiccans/witches practice it. I was saying maybe those powers could be true but it has a scientific explanation we don't know yet.


“Your Ancestors Called it Magic, but You Call it Science. I Come From a Land Where They Are One and the Same.”

― Thor Odinson

"The road to good and evil is wide and filled with many but the path to neutrality is narrow and empty."
-Nichos Skywalker
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25 Aug 2019 17:04 #342190 by Kazat0
Replied by Kazat0 on topic What is the force?
Carlos.Martinez3, a church with no real solid definition of the base of their philosophy kinda falls apart (yes the Jedi philosophy revolves entirely around the force)
So you telling me "it can be whatever you want" doesn't actually answer the question.

"The road to good and evil is wide and filled with many but the path to neutrality is narrow and empty."
-Nichos Skywalker

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25 Aug 2019 17:07 #342191 by Kazat0
Replied by Kazat0 on topic What is the force?
Alethea finally a real answer i wanted peoples opinions about what it is. not dodging the question by saying "we don't know" i wanted to hear what people believed it was

"The road to good and evil is wide and filled with many but the path to neutrality is narrow and empty."
-Nichos Skywalker

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25 Aug 2019 18:06 #342193 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic What is the force?

Kazat0 wrote: magickal powers HAVE been discovered and many wiccans/witches practice it.

No. What wiccans/witches practice are rituals. Those have been invented aplenty, for sure. Woo-woo has been asserted, too, and, somehow, the better ways we find to document events the fewer instances of sorcery do we record. We have discovered so much at this point, that what room is left for the magical powers asserted back in the day is so small as to demonstrably be of no significance to our daily lives.


I was saying maybe those powers could be true but it has a scientific explanation we don't know yet.

No, they really couldn't. We would have long modelled them by now if they could. "Explanation" may mean a lot of things, but the least we would have at this point is the postulation of their existence and mechanisms by which they can be manipulated so as to fix the magnitude of their influence on observable events. What we have instead is an ever more refined model of nature the gaps in which are so small at this pont as to leave no room for anything of daily significance.


“Your Ancestors Called it Magic, but You Call it Science. I Come From a Land Where They Are One and the Same.”

― Thor Odinson

Friendly reminder that not every comic book out there is an accurate record of real people or events...

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25 Aug 2019 18:53 #342197 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic What is the force?
I've been having an.. experience.. as of late.. like a sort of "tapping in".. it's almost the same feeling I use to get during deep meditation.. but slightly more.. pervasive.. something like a universal living flow.. as if everything is connected and energized by the same Force.. from people to events.. everything just seems to flow into everything else.. it all feels alive and conscious..

Mind and Heart, Masculine and Feminine, Adam and Eve.. what difference is there?..

What is "The Force".. it's everything.. It Is.. material and beyond material.. Fullness and the cause of It..

As far as telekinesis, or other supernatural concepts in general, it'd be better to ask why it wouldn't exist.. or why do we start from the position that these things are definitively false?.. which isn't truly a neutral position..

Personally, I'm certain these things are possible and is merely a different science.. though in the "Age of Two Fish".. the Natural and Supernatural are seen as opposites instead, and the unified reality goes unseen..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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25 Aug 2019 19:33 #342203 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic What is the force?

Uzima Moto wrote: As far as telekinesis, or other supernatural concepts in general, it'd be better to ask why it wouldn't exist.. or why do we start from the position that these things are definitively false?.. which isn't truly a neutral position..

If we were only now starting to investigate the question, starting from either position would be slightly unfair, admittedly. I say slightly, because there is a case to be made for employing the null hypothesis until further notice. Alas, we are not only now starting to investigate claims of telekinesis or the supernatural more broadly, and the evidence against such things has been piling up for quite some time now, to a point where even "reasonable doubt" is becoming increasingly laughable. It is not the "things themselves" that are false, mind you, only about every claim made to them. The simplest explanation to why all these claims keep consistently failing so far seems to be that there is no substance to them, but it may of course in principle be some convoluted nefarious trick the universe is playing on us all to deceive us into thinking that it is all nonsense when it really isn't. I for one choose to go with the simpler explanation and wait for the data set to grow more consistent with an alternative one...

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25 Aug 2019 20:39 #342207 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic What is the force?
To be fair, if you believe in the force as some sort of literal power that lets you do things that break the laws of nature, there would be no way of scientifically proving it, so the point is moot. If you think it is coherent with science, you're necessarily arguing that science just isn't quite there yet for some reason.

Science works not by necessarily proving something is right, but by making explanatory mechanisms that have predictive power and testing that against experimental evidence. Because of that reliance on experimental evidence, it isn't objective in the same sense as math: I mean you can't find the pure number 5 in nature. I've yet to hear any well-conceived experiment involving magic that falsifies the current scientific understanding. This doesn't necessarily preclude magic (the absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence), but practically it does (I mean, I don't believe in the tooth fairy)

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25 Aug 2019 20:50 #342209 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic What is the force?

Gisteron wrote:

Uzima Moto wrote: As far as telekinesis, or other supernatural concepts in general, it'd be better to ask why it wouldn't exist.. or why do we start from the position that these things are definitively false?.. which isn't truly a neutral position..

If we were only now starting to investigate the question, starting from either position would be slightly unfair, admittedly. I say slightly, because there is a case to be made for employing the null hypothesis until further notice. Alas, we are not only now starting to investigate claims of telekinesis or the supernatural more broadly, and the evidence against such things has been piling up for quite some time now, to a point where even "reasonable doubt" is becoming increasingly laughable. It is not the "things themselves" that are false, mind you, only about every claim made to them. The simplest explanation to why all these claims keep consistently failing so far seems to be that there is no substance to them, but it may of course in principle be some convoluted nefarious trick the universe is playing on us all to deceive us into thinking that it is all nonsense when it really isn't. I for one choose to go with the simpler explanation and wait for the data set to grow more consistent with an alternative one...


Fair enough, however, I'm not sure all claims that could be made have been, nor that all claims made have been debunked for certain yet..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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25 Aug 2019 21:03 #342210 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar

Kazat0 wrote: Alethea finally a real answer i wanted peoples opinions about what it is. not dodging the question by saying "we don't know" i wanted to hear what people believed it was


I for one did not "dodge" your question. Why is "I dont know" not an acceptable answer? Is your goal here to listen to different explanations and then just pick one that sounds good to you to believe? If so that is an incredibly lazy and inefficient way to gain knowledge.

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
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25 Aug 2019 21:11 - 25 Aug 2019 21:12 #342214 by rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic What is the force?
With Vixen on this "I don't know" should be an acceptable answer. Otherwise you force conjecture witch arguably can be more harmful than no answer.

rugadd
Last edit: 25 Aug 2019 21:12 by rugadd.
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