The Good That Comes From Disagreement

There was a thread recently about a conversation had between several of the people in the temple. This person stated that the others were not taking their ideas seriously because they were hypothetic in nature, and assumed that the logic could not still be applied to real situations. This person was obviously angry that the others were being so dismissive of their philosophies: saying that these people were closed-minded and should not be the kinds of people teaching the rest of us.

I do agree that an idea should never be dismissed for the reasons that they say their idea was dismissed (and until I read the exact conversation for myself I'm not going to assume in either direction whether it really was on that basis alone, or whether they had other reasons as well) but i do have some thoughts to share about the situation as a whole:

1. First off, I am proud of this person for starting a conversation about this, and bringing the idea to everyone's attention that we shouldn't be so dismissive of each other.
2. But secondly, I disagree with the notion that I should never learn anything from a person that I know to have made a mistake like this: first of all, I'd like to point out that we all make these kinds of mistakes from time to time: dismissing other people's ideas too easily because we already made up our mind about the subject. We're all guilty of that from time to time: we're all human. But that doesn't mean that no one should ever listen to a word we say: even if someone is small-minded in one way, they can still have a deep wisdom when it comes to something else, and we still have something we can learn from them. Also, we all know that we can learn just as much from someone's mistakes as we can from their teachings. In short, I'm not about to leave this community behind just because I disagreed with how several of its members handled an issue: I want to stay and challenge them and help them to learn from me, while I continue to learn other things from them. We're all people: they're not really "the masters" and I'm not really "the apprentice;" we both learn from and teach each other.

Such a wonderful reminder about the importance of humility. We're so often hard-wired to protect our beliefs that it can cause us distress, on a deep level, when they are challenged. But I believe the Jedi Path requires we get over our aversion to challenging what we think we know. Thank you for bringing this back to the forefront of my thinking today.

Hmm, I'm sure I have no idea who you are talking about but let me just say that the person was not so much angry as just frustrated. This frustration came from the fact that some here are dismissive of others because they actually do believe in that master-apprentice mentality. They consider themselves the master and thus the apprentice as something lesser than them that needs to be coddled.

They feel they cant just speak to these people as equals but instead need to lead them down their personal path of discovery. The reality of this is that its simply not true. They have self aggrandized themselves into this philosophy and any end roads that might be made to quell this opinion are squashed. Evidence enough of this behaviour happened in the very thread in which you speak by one such individual who locked it. And as a result the behaviour continues unchecked and nothing was resolved simply because they refused to entertain the conversation.

I can understand that frustration, and as a Knight and Teaching Master here (I do prefer the term "Mentor"), I have been guilty of the behavior you mention. In my eagerness to serve the Temple and give back to the community that taught me, I went searching for people I thought I could share all of my newfound wisdom with and I assumed it would be me disseminating the information. It is easy to forget that despite our progress here in the Temple, we as teachers may not have the real world education or experience that our students do. I am happy to say that I have learned as much from Apprentices I work with (not just mine) as I have from my own studies.

We know a lot gets lost in translation when reading text. We know also that everyone has at least some amount of baggage that is responsible for miscommunication (on both the serving and receiving end).

When someone trips up in their communication and you know they do, what is a good response to give? Gripe at them that they did or help them along?

1. Can we be aware enough to communicate with courtesy to someone who might be difficult sometimes?
2. Can we be humble enough to yield to what someone is pointing out instead of focusing on if we think they are not communicating to us in a way we insist they do?

What makes up the "high road"? When the time comes, can we be aware enough to know its there and take it?

Who is this "we" of which you speak? Seems you assume a great deal to speak for "we". It might be better to speak for yourself.

Proteus wrote: 1. Can we be aware enough to communicate with courtesy to someone who might be difficult sometimes?
2. Can we be humble enough to yield to what someone is pointing out instead of focusing on if we think they are not communicating to us in a way we insist they do?

What makes up the "high road"? When the time comes, can we be aware enough to know its there and take it?

I've encountered so few "difficult" people here I might be a bit rusty

I think (I'm really just making a guess) I know what you mean by the "high road", and the spirit behind your statement, but I've also seen many people latch on to the "high road" in ways that might sometimes come off as condescending. I'm sure I've done it myself and haven't even noticed.

Proteus wrote: 1. Can we be aware enough to communicate with courtesy to someone who might be difficult sometimes?

What i see mostly is just pressure to make the "difficult" people stop being difficult. Or to make it against the rules to be difficult, or to just not respond to a difficult person at all when they try to engage.
I dont see all of those responses from all people all the time, but i definitely see all of them from some people, sometimes.

Proteus wrote: 2. Can we be humble enough to yield to what someone is pointing out instead of focusing on if we think they are not communicating to us in a way we insist they do?

Well you know how it is: this is easy to understand, and easy to say, but when its my turn its pretty damn difficult to do.
Sometimes i get it and sometimes i dont and I think its the same for everyone (except for those who just dont ever get it lol)

Proteus wrote: What makes up the "high road"? When the time comes, can we be aware enough to know its there and take it?

All i can say is that this is a a very good question, and one that I struggle with myself.