What does being a member of the group "Jedi" mean to you?

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16 Oct 2016 22:19 #261499 by MartaLina

Khaos wrote:


Everybody chooses the path they think is much suited for them , i am me , i knew stuff before i came here , i am an active particiapant and i am still learning , patience and resilience , and i learn here as much here as in real life.


Bully for you.

Still, in reading the responses...I come to another observation.

No one speaks of this path as something...precious to them.

I know I can expect a Gollum reference...

Still, I have worked damn hard in my path. Blood,sweat, tears, the whole bit.

It is not something that is as good as the next thing. It could not be "by some other name."

Its important to me, the label of Sith, of passing on, and hopefully adding to what has been given to me to others, to continue to pursue my own way in it.

Spiritual materialism? Perhaps, but I am in no way spiritual.

Its not like the Lions Club, Freemasons, or anything else.

There is no other path like it, and no other path for me, by any other name.

Its just interesting how many life paths can simply be tossed off as nothing, or old clothing, refuse.

I see it as wasteful, not unlike littering, and just as damaging ultimately to a populace.

I have come across many Jedi, and I hear the claims of betterment, but, when the rubber meets the road that is not the case.

I mean, if thats the level of commitment you put into something, I cannot imagine you are doing differently offline, and the results will be mediocre, at best.

If Jedi doesnt mean all that much, and it seems it does not, then how much meaning are you putting into it? Or anything?

Extending that past just yourself, because its not about you but others...How much to they get from said lack of meaning?


Aaaah i love being a Jedi , because being a Jedi means more to me than being a social worker for instance which i am aswell , but i find it does not reflect the work i put into being someone who does the right thing for the right reasons ! How much meaning do i put in helping others ? A lot ! And now i have a name i can share it under ..Jedi , i could call that precious ..

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16 Oct 2016 22:55 - 16 Oct 2016 22:56 #261503 by Kyrin Wyldstar

MartaLina wrote:
Where do you read i am not improving myself , is not that what i am doing here by studying here ? Dont put stuff in my tekst that i did not put there please.


I did not read that you were not improving yourself in your comment nor did I imply that in my question to you. Lets back up the train for a sec here because I'm sensing a lot of hostility in your reply. Why is that? This is a positive input, opinion thread on what you feel draws you to the group Jedi. I was not attacking you nor demeaning you in any way. I was trying to present a deeper side/different slant to your comment and I expected your reply to be either a constructive challenge to that reply or an affirmation that my response could in some ways be accurate. I did not expect you to imply that I was attacking you in some way as that was never my intent.

In this place you call yourself a Jedi, as do I, and yet you chose to assume something about my intent that was not true and you acted on that assumption instead of trying to clarify that intent. I'm curious now, why is it you felt I was trying to attack or demean your position in some way? If you did feel that way, why did you not ask for clarity instead of jumping to conclusions and firing back? You don't know me, you have never cared to get to know me beyond those times our paths may have crossed casually on the board. If there is some underlying philosophy that binds you and I at a basic level as Jedi, why not take the road of "benefit of the doubt" instead of assuming the worst and "pulling guns"?
Last edit: 16 Oct 2016 22:56 by Kyrin Wyldstar.

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16 Oct 2016 23:09 - 16 Oct 2016 23:37 #261504 by MartaLina

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

MartaLina wrote:
Where do you read i am not improving myself , is not that what i am doing here by studying here ? Dont put stuff in my tekst that i did not put there please.


I did not read that you were not improving yourself in your comment nor did I imply that in my question to you. Lets back up the train for a sec here because I'm sensing a lot of hostility in your reply. Why is that? This is a positive input, opinion thread on what you feel draws you to the group Jedi. I was not attacking you nor demeaning you in any way. I was trying to present a deeper side/different slant to your comment and I expected your reply to be either a constructive challenge to that reply or an affirmation that my response could in some ways be accurate. I did not expect you to imply that I was attacking you in some way as that was never my intent.

In this place you call yourself a Jedi, as do I, and yet you chose to assume something about my intent that was not true and you acted on that assumption instead of trying to clarify that intent. I'm curious now, why is it you felt I was trying to attack or demean your position in some way? If you did feel that way, why did you not ask for clarity instead of jumping to conclusions and firing back? You don't know me, you have never cared to get to know me beyond those times our paths may have crossed casually on the board. If there is some underlying philosophy that binds you and I at a basic level as Jedi, why not take the road of "benefit of the doubt" instead of assuming the worst and "pulling guns"?


It must be in the written language then because i assumed that you assumed something about my intend loll , no hostility intented , your assumption of not improving lead to my remark , please explain what you meant with : I understand that philosophy but at the core of that isnt that still about improving yourself?
This sentence implies that one is not improving here or for the wrong reasons , if that is not what you meant , i am sorry
Last edit: 16 Oct 2016 23:37 by MartaLina.

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16 Oct 2016 23:36 #261506 by Kyrin Wyldstar

Khaos wrote: When I first met Sith, I saw and extreme ownership of oneself, and results directly translating into measurable progress towards one goals.
Not novel of course, but at the same time, no other path spoke to me in a language that made sense to me.

The culture around it called to me, and yes, we are all individuals, but there is always a collective culture.
You could fail, and be wrong.

In that there was an accountability that I did not see in the Jedi.
You couldnt be wrong, and no one really could decide on a common language. It was messy and unorganized.
Not so much with the Sith, and that is why I chose it.


It seems that "Sith" goals are quite a bit different than "Jedi" ones in your opinion. Many Jedi here have said they pursue self improvement in many aspects of their lives but that seems to be a goal you describe as vacuous. So what sorts of goals do Sith pursue, what sorts of training would one get at a Sith temple? How does one measure progress towards a Sith goal?

You also seem to validate a position I have taken in this thread that generally "Jedi" cant seem to agree upon anything either spiritually or doctrinally. But you describe Sith as not having that problem. It seems you are saying that Sith agree on a specific philosophy and from that a common doctrine is derived and this is an underlying unity that all Sith can unite behind. But my question is what authority decides these things and who is it that enforces these positions?

Sith mentality seems to be very close to what an atheist satanist would believe. Would you characterize Sith as something similar to that? if so why not just call yourself a Satanist instead of a Sith? Why the distinction in terms? What is it about Sith that is unique?

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16 Oct 2016 23:57 #261507 by Kyrin Wyldstar

MartaLina wrote:
It must be in the written language then because i assumed that you assumed something about my intend loll , no hostility intented , your assumption of not improving lead to my remark , please explain what you meant with : I understand that philosophy but at the core of that isnt that still about improving yourself?
This sentence implies that one is not improving here or for the wrong reasons , if that is not what you meant , i am sorry


Not at all Marta, In fact if you read through my previous posts on this thread I think you will see that I find a common theme among all "Jedi" as being on a self imposed path of self improvement. That is not in question as it is one of a Jedis most basic underlying philosophies and of course, as an active apprentice on this board, I count you in that number. In fact even more so because of your status here. I'm sorry as well if i said anything that implied I felt to the contrary.

My intent in this thread is to get to that most basic underlying philosophy that binds us all as Jedi. Some of the discussion in this thread has been about action a Jedi might undertake as that philosophy - for example helping others. Those are all very valid concepts but for each of us those actions vary, sometimes quite dramatically. So I am trying to get beyond action to the philosophy behind the action,. So when you said your path as a Jedi leads you to help others before yourself I was trying to ask you why you feel you have those actionable priorities? Do you feel they are a byproduct of your drive for self improvement and do you feel that drive is a universal trait among all Jedi that motives their individual paths and subsequent priorities/actions?

That was all lol ;) Sorry if I was vague.

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16 Oct 2016 23:58 - 17 Oct 2016 00:36 #261508 by Adder
I'm not good at making things clear, but for me I thinks its the likely emergence of the best set of pragmatic tools applicable to, at least, humans. In other words the 'one true' religion :laugh:
Lol, just kidding kinda. But it won't be dogmatic or prescriptive beyond the barest minimum of what is required for it to be effective as an individual and experiential path!!! With its capacity for results being its proof of maturation at some point in humanities future as science improves and spirituality refines alongside it. Where we are now is not there, by a long shot, but working towards it.

Compared to most other pathways which are focused on historical symbols and practises, drenched in static historical culture, Jediism to me is about the best from the past only and exploring the possibilities to get the best results with an eye and focus to the future to grow the path. You can call it by any name, but to me, the fiction (at least the original trilogy) represented the remnants of that, in a future that had been undermined by inhumanity (for want of a more interstellar word) - thus representing the focus, commitment and to lesser extent connecting back to our mythological basis for spiritual evolution and broadening conscious awareness - hence the association. Which is why Sith realism is a bit incoherent and more like dark Jediism to me (which is fine, there is some groovy symbols and practises there which have real import into Jediism IMO as introductory material to get people started on making progress).

So therefore the nature of its individual application and minimal dogma gives the impression of incoherence in the Jedi path, but in fact to me its the best vehicle for growing and exploring applied spirituality and pragmatism without unnecessary borders or boundaries. Unless you disagree with the doctrine, or cannot understand the contextual meaning inferred by its relationships - in which case it might be impediment to ones growth!!! We're each different though, and I don't think the doctrine is meant to be a limiting influence, but a supporting one.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 17 Oct 2016 00:36 by Adder.
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17 Oct 2016 00:18 - 17 Oct 2016 00:26 #261510 by Khaos

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Khaos wrote: When I first met Sith, I saw and extreme ownership of oneself, and results directly translating into measurable progress towards one goals.
Not novel of course, but at the same time, no other path spoke to me in a language that made sense to me.

The culture around it called to me, and yes, we are all individuals, but there is always a collective culture.
You could fail, and be wrong.

In that there was an accountability that I did not see in the Jedi.
You couldnt be wrong, and no one really could decide on a common language. It was messy and unorganized.
Not so much with the Sith, and that is why I chose it.


It seems that "Sith" goals are quite a bit different than "Jedi" ones in your opinion. Many Jedi here have said they pursue self improvement in many aspects of their lives but that seems to be a goal you describe as vacuous. So what sorts of goals do Sith pursue, what sorts of training would one get at a Sith temple? How does one measure progress towards a Sith goal?

You also seem to validate a position I have taken in this thread that generally "Jedi" cant seem to agree upon anything either spiritually or doctrinally. But you describe Sith as not having that problem. It seems you are saying that Sith agree on a specific philosophy and from that a common doctrine is derived and this is an underlying unity that all Sith can unite behind. But my question is what authority decides these things and who is it that enforces these positions?

Sith mentality seems to be very close to what an atheist satanist would believe. Would you characterize Sith as something similar to that? if so why not just call yourself a Satanist instead of a Sith? Why the distinction in terms? What is it about Sith that is unique?



Lots of questions. No exploration of mine.

Fine.

I dont know any atheist Satanists,so I can make no comparison. The Satanists I do know do not believe in any deity I am aware of, so the atheist tag seems superfluous..

That said, Satanists as a whole seem more hedonistic. As to where Sith are not.

Getting what you want doesnt mean doing what you want.

There is a lot more self-discipline in the Sith path

So, I dont call myself a Satanist because I am not one.

I can only gather that Satanist, is a path you do know, and so seek the most superficial common denominators that you assume about mine without the same knowledge because I did not give a glowing observation about the Jedi path. Because otherwise it has not bearing in this conversation.

However, I did not insinuate that the Jedi path was like any other path. Other Jedi did that. I simply stated that is seems no one cares about it. With reason, people here regularly state how insignificant it is to them.

So, what makes the Sith path unique? Unique to what?

I stated Sith share a common culture, yes.

Jedi seems to be whatever you want it to be.

With Sith, no, that is not the case at all.

What authority decides?

I do, at least at those sites I am head of.

Of course, I am not alone, but at the same time, yes, those who are leaders in the said path are such for a reason.

Now, Jedi on the other hand, always ask "Well who are you to judge,etc"

As head of the D.A. for example, if you dont want to be a Sith, but just want to do your own thing, then you dont want to be a Sith, and I dont allow you to join. Its really that simple.

I suppose now would come the argument of what about individuality.

It isnt a problem for those that are not insecure in there individuality. Only those with a weak ego have a problem with authority.

Its called having a student mind.

If you are already overflowing with your own knowing, you are not prepared to actually learn.

Individuality is not simply copy and pasting old habits, and skillsets and calling it something else to make yourself feel better.

As for goals.

No, Sith do not seek "Self improvement"

One measures progress in achievement in getting what they want.

The training you would get, would be specific to what it is you want.

The methodology is common. It is the code.

Passion- I want X

Strength- What traits, skills, etc, do I need to build as a prerequisite to getting what I want.

Power-Putting those traits, skills, etc, into action into your sphere of influence to get what you want.

Victory- I really shouldnt have to explain this. Its achievement, getting what you want.

Using that methodology, you can clearly see the broad method of measurement.

Each individual wants different things, so the specific measurements will be different for each and are mapped out as such as they go through their training. I cannot generalize such an individual thing. However, each step takes you closer to your goal in a tangible way.

Which is another reason we do not run into problems of authority, or individuality.

First, there is a vetting process for attitude. I and those who help me lead refuse people regularly. Those of your members that are at the F.A as well can attest to it. Even then, you are observed for a month, if not more before actual admission into the Sith path. Actions speak louder than words, and in forums, its your actions we want to hear about. Not how many other philosophies you have studied, or your recent morality problem. Dark? Light? Evil? Good? These are not conversations worth having. I am not here to teach you or help you with something an adult should know.

Then there is the case that I want you to achieve what you want.

The code, the language, the culture, is what makes us uniquely Sith.

To which, if you want to know more of that, it requires a lot more walking and less talking.

Well, some talking, but I think you get my point.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2016 00:26 by Khaos.

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17 Oct 2016 00:28 #261512 by Trisskar

Passion- I want X

Strength- What traits, skills, etc, do I need to build as a prerequisite to getting what I want.

Power-Putting those traits, skills, etc, into action into your sphere of influence to get what you want.

Victory- I really shouldnt have to explain this. Its achievement, getting what you want.


I really love this! What a great way of putting the code in understanding Khaos B) May I quote you?

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17 Oct 2016 04:15 #261530 by Khaos

Trisskar wrote:

Passion- I want X

Strength- What traits, skills, etc, do I need to build as a prerequisite to getting what I want.

Power-Putting those traits, skills, etc, into action into your sphere of influence to get what you want.

Victory- I really shouldnt have to explain this. Its achievement, getting what you want.


I really love this! What a great way of putting the code in understanding Khaos B) May I quote you?


Well, you just did :laugh:

Of course.

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17 Oct 2016 05:17 - 17 Oct 2016 05:18 #261534 by JamesSand

No one speaks of this path as something...precious to them.


In some ways that might be sort of the point.

Being "A Jedi" has no value within an of itself.
It's not catholicism or islam, there's no painting on the wall so the first thing a guest sees is that you're a good and dedicated follower of A, B, or C.

You can't console yourself with "At least I'm a Jedi" - the "Path", the mindset, the focus has no inherent worth.

I would not expect anyone to speak of "Being a Jedi" as having a strong value to them as you do of whatever you do, the title is just...an aid to describing a philosophy, not something to be achieved - You can't reach your final evolutionary form of Ultimate-Mega-Jedi-tron and rest easy.

As for

Jedi seems to be whatever you want it to be.


I think you deal with this well enough yourself

With Sith, no, that is not the case at all.
What authority decides?
I do, at least at those sites I am head of.


(Bold mine) - So there are Sith about with different systems or beliefs to you? Well dang. The whole concept falls over then! :laugh:

To which, if you want to know more of that, it requires a lot more walking and less talking.


Most things do - but that's the way of the world - I've met plenty Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Mechanics, Tax accountants, Shop Assistants who are all about the title (and occasionally the paycheck), but really don't meet any kind of standard you'd expect or desire :cheer:

If a few Jedi take the name but don't actually do it well - Same as bad shop assistants - I take my business elsewhere, but whether I like it or, I can't expunge them from the world.

First, there is a vetting process for attitude. I and those who help me lead refuse people regularly.


There are pros and cons to this.
I think the world needs more vetting, we are currently in a very "accept everyone" sort of mood, which means you do get a lot of trash, and once the trash is in the door it can be difficult to sweep out.
On the other hand, it can also be valuable to introduce new and non traditional people/things/methods/thoughts into your "group" (family, friends, workplace, pasta sauce recipes). I don't know what your vetting system is, I'll assume it works for you, and I'm sure you're all bright people so you will adjust it as you go to ensure the vitality of your organisation.


It seems, as it often does when reading this stuff, that everyone is dodging around the same damn point but using different words to explain it.


(Off topic a bit, as I don't want to get derailed too far - but if I got that funny little gold and red book with a big S on the front of it, would it more or less describe your Sith beliefs to me? :cheer: )
Last edit: 17 Oct 2016 05:18 by JamesSand.

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