About Police Shootings (in America, Duh)

Joda Sett wrote: It's more important now than ever that we, as Jedi, set the example for others to follow. We are ambassadors of peace, tolerance, and patience.

i agree but i really dont have any idea what this actually means in this conversation

if i tell my kid that the lawn is getting out of control and he tells me "We are ambassadors of peace, tolerance, and patience" i will not demonstrate any of those virtues until he goes out there and fixes the problem

if he can fix the problem in a way that is peaceful and tolerant and patient, thats great, just so long as he immediately gets out there and butchers and kills those intolerable weeds and grasses

Karn wrote: My biggest concern is the future of law enforcement. We shed a bad light on LEO, we make them out to be the "bad guy", then who is going to want to be one? I get paid $8.60/hour as a Police Officer, that is about $56/day take home.

Is that true? That's awful! I always expected police officers were paid very well to have to deal with so much.

Karn wrote: My biggest concern is the future of law enforcement. We shed a bad light on LEO, we make them out to be the "bad guy", then who is going to want to be one? I get paid $8.60/hour as a Police Officer, that is about $56/day take home.

With the ever increasing liability law suits against officers, not departments, you have to get insurance or your personal assets can be taken away for even the most minor mistake in a "routine" traffic stop.
.

Ok you make 8.60 an hour?Are you in your first year because even then this page says that you make http://www.austintexas.gov/page/benefits-and-salary roughly 57,000 a year which in no way is 8.60 an hour.

You are at risk of being sued ? I must say I doubt that as you have qualified immunity which makes that almost impossible https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/qualified_immunity

MadHatter wrote: Ok you make 8.60 an hour?Are you in your first year because even then this page says that you make http://www.austintexas.gov/page/benefits-and-salary roughly 64,000 a year which in no way is 8.60 an hour.

How are you going to show up and tell a guy he doesn't make what he just SAID he makes? Seriously.

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

MadHatter wrote: Ok you make 8.60 an hour?Are you in your first year because even then this page says that you make http://www.austintexas.gov/page/benefits-and-salary roughly 64,000 a year which in no way is 8.60 an hour.

How are you going to show up and tell a guy he doesn't make what he just SAID he makes? Seriously.

Well first of all I corrected the number and secondly if the pay rates listed for his job are conflicting with what was said why would I not question it. Especially when the city of Austins own page cites a MINIMUM of 13 an hour for city employees which is what a cop is. https://www.austintexas.gov/faq/what-citys-living-wage

Oh and then there is the BLS site that states that only ten percent of cops make 16 an hour which is the low end. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm

So yes I think its reasonable to be skeptical of numbers that do not match what is documented salaries.

MadHatter wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

MadHatter wrote: Ok you make 8.60 an hour?Are you in your first year because even then this page says that you make http://www.austintexas.gov/page/benefits-and-salary roughly 64,000 a year which in no way is 8.60 an hour.

How are you going to show up and tell a guy he doesn't make what he just SAID he makes? Seriously.

Well first of all I corrected the number and secondly if the pay rates listed for his job are conflicting with what was said why would I not question it. Especially when the city of Austins own page cites a MINIMUM of 13 an hour for city employees which is what a cop is. https://www.austintexas.gov/faq/what-citys-living-wage

There's something to be said for those that can TRUST their fellow Jedi to not being lying. And I thought I had trust issues! What reason does he even have to lie about this?

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

MadHatter wrote:

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

MadHatter wrote: Ok you make 8.60 an hour?Are you in your first year because even then this page says that you make http://www.austintexas.gov/page/benefits-and-salary roughly 64,000 a year which in no way is 8.60 an hour.

How are you going to show up and tell a guy he doesn't make what he just SAID he makes? Seriously.

Well first of all I corrected the number and secondly if the pay rates listed for his job are conflicting with what was said why would I not question it. Especially when the city of Austins own page cites a MINIMUM of 13 an hour for city employees which is what a cop is. https://www.austintexas.gov/faq/what-citys-living-wage

There's something to be said for those that can TRUST their fellow Jedi to not being lying. And I thought I had trust issues! What reason does he even have to lie about this?

No idea what reasons there are but I even added BLS stats that call this into question. When the numbers do not match the pay rates I am familiar with having considered the field myself I went to look them up and no numbers I find match that. So yes its reasonable to question what is put forward when nothing that is publicly available matches it. Not the page citing what the salaries are, not the page that states minimums for city employees and not the BLS page for police officer salaries.

EDIT AGAIN WITH MORE INFO

Even the BLS stats for the area state that the median salary is roughly around 30 an hour even if the low end is half that its still 15 which falls in with all the other links numbers. Im sorry but something does not add here http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_12420.htm#(4)

This is tacky. Karn has never been anything but honorable. I'm out.

Snowy Aftermath wrote: This is tacky. Karn has never been anything but honorable. I'm out.

The pay seems super low to me and really not even close to what I know city employees to make so I went to see what the deal was and nothing matched. Im sorry if that bugs you Snowy but when something seems off to me I fact check.

Silas Mercury wrote: Here's what Michael Moore has to say: (from Stupid White Men)
* Who gave us the black plague? A white guy.
* Who invented PBC, PVC, PBB, and a host of chemicals that are killing us? White guys.
* Who has started every war America has been in? White men.
* Who is responsible for the programming on FOX? White men.
* Who invented the punch card ballot? A white man.
* Whose idea was it to pollute the world with the internal combustion engine? Whitey, that's who.
* The Holocaust? That guy really gave white people a bad name (that's why we prefer to call him a Nazi and his little helpers Germans).
* The genocide of Native Americans? White man.
* Slavery? Whitey!
* About 20 percent of young black men between the ages of sixteen and twenty- four are neither in 'school nor working- compared with only 9 percent of young white men. Despite the "economic boom" of the nineties, this percentage has not fallen substantially over the last ten years.
* In 1993, white households had invested nearly three times as much in stocks and mutual funds and/or IRA and Keogh accounts as black households. Since then, the stock market has more than doubled its value.
* Black heart attack patients are far less likely than whites to undergo cardiac catheterization, a common and potentially lifesaving procedure, regardless of the race of their doctors. Black and white doctors together referred white patients for catheterization about 40 percent more often than black patients.
* Whites are five times more likely than blacks to receive emergency clot-busting treatment for stroke.
* Black women are four times more likely than white women to die while giving birth.
* Black levels of unemployment have been roughly twice those of whites since 1954.

Every time they catch a serial killer, it's a crazy white guy. Every time a terrorist blows up a federal building, or a madman gets four hundred people to drink Kool-Aid, or a Beach Boys songwriter casts a spell causing half a dozen nymphets to murder "all the piggies" in the Hollywood Hills, you know it's a member of the white race up to his old tricks.

ok so this is a great example of why you should never listen to morons or ideologues (like michael moore/rush limbaugh)

the black plague was not "given to us by a white guy," it came from a bacterium and was spread by fleas
and apparently it's origins actually go back to china

heres a link: Origins Of The Black Death Traced Back To China, Gene Sequencing Has Revealed

pvc and the combustion engine, ect - does mm like the fact that he can walk into the kitchen or bathroom and turn on the sink?
or that he can water his lawn in the evening?
or that someone can mow it for him while he is jet hopping around the country shooting his mouth off?

if so, then he should stf about pvc and engines or invent something better

who has started every war america has been in?
well some might say the japanese started one, but not every war was wrong for us to be involved in anyway
there wouldnt even be an america if it werent for a war
and yes i agree that americas leaders have historically been white, but that changes more and more with every generation and youre going to see the same kinds of mistakes from every race

fox programming?
sure, the programmers at fox are white, so was sir isaac newton, was it being white that made the difference?

the punch card ballot?
from: http://whatis.techtarget.com/reference/History-of-the-punch-card
"The standard punched card, originally invented by Herman Hollerith, was first used for vital statistics tabulation by the New York City Board of Health and several states. After this trial use, punched cards were adopted for use in the 1890 census."

the company he created is now called IBM and while i do have critiques of it, it has undeniably done some useful stuff - in fact i would say that IBM has done way more useful stuff than mm, really

slavery goes back to the Sumerians of Mesopotamia (and very likely further but thats as far back as history takes us) and every race has engaged in it

white poeple also fought against the holocaust and other races commit genocide as well:

i was going to list one or two for every race but here, this is easier (read it!)

http://www.rantpolitical.com/2014/12/06/15-worst-genocides-in-history/

there are known genetic and racial factors to many illnesses, this does not make white people bad lol its goddam genetics, and its got no moral implications

mm is a moron

"About 20 percent of young black men between the ages of sixteen and twenty- four are neither in 'school nor working- compared with only 9 percent of young white men. Despite the "economic boom" of the nineties, this percentage has not fallen substantially over the last ten years."

this is a tough one because there ARE societal factors involved in black poverty, and poverty is the source of all kinds of ills, including drugs and crime to a great degree

but when mm (or anyone else) simplifies this into "white people are evil" what he achieves is simply adding fuel to fire of social contention; he half ass identifies a problem and then goes on to misdirect attention away from actual solutions

basically, whites are statistically more likely to be affluent thank blacks, and the history of slavery and then discrimination against blacks is absolutely the single greatest factor of this, but just as whites have been the cause of the problem, so too have there always been whites working to change it, and so too are there blacks who dont

people with money get better medical treatment and have better access to opportunities for more money

the real equalizer in america is money, and so if you want to promote equality in america the key is in doing whatever it takes to ensure that all people can make a good living for themselves as a result of discipline and talent

you cannot generalize by race because within every race there is great degree of personal differences and no single label will apply to every person of any race, except the obvious label of the race itself (i.e. yes all white people are white, but no, all white people are not evil)

so, dont be a racist, and dont promote racist propaganda

Silas Mercury wrote: Here's what Michael Moore has to say: (from Stupid White Men)

Isn't Michael Moore white!?!? :huh:

I have heard that more Black Americans are shot by Police than White Americans. So I did a quick search to see what I came up with. Here are a few sites that caught my attention…

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-08/breakdown-us-citizens-killed-cops-2016
https://www.allenbwest.com/michele/crime-expert-releases-shocking-new-statistics-about-black-men-killed-by-cops

I have NOT looked in to their numbers, where they got them or the validity of them. Nor do I support anything written on any of these sites. They are just sites that caught my attention and I thought were interesting enough to share. They could be complete Hog-wash. :blink:

What I have seen is a lot of finger pointing. Does anyone really want to know who is responsible for all of this? We are. You, me, all of us. And we keep feeding off negative emotions and spreading the sickness of finger pointing. :blush:

We need to address the issues at hand and correct them. Issues I have noticed that have led to where we are currently.

• People love sensationalism, so the media gives it to them.
  
• People feel the law enforcement agencies do not have the people’s best interest in mind.
  
• The police agencies are comprised of people and people make bad decisions and mistakes (either in action or policy), just like we do. You and me both.
  
• Relations between the people and the law enforcement agencies have been strained by actions of peoples on both sides of the fence.
  
• All people have a tendency to let their emotions govern their decision making processes.

In my mind, these are the causes of the issues we face. I would prefer to address these and not the symptoms which are a result of the causes.

Snowy Aftermath wrote:

Silas Mercury wrote: ...

Anyone can find a zillion bad things about anyone. But my boss is a white guy and a war hero. My secondary boss is an amazing father and one of the most genuine people I have ever met and he's a white guy. My uncle is a white guy and was a FANTASTIC cop.

And Michael Moore... he's a sensationalist filmmaker whose goal is to make back enough money to cover the cost of the movies he makes, plus enough to pay his bills for the next ten centuries if he can.

Never trust anyone with a stake in what they're telling you. He's a used car salesman. Use your brain, do a little research and check his facts. Don't just swallow it.

A 'ware hero' how do you define a war hero ? There are no heroes in war. A man who murders tens of Iraqis and Afghans to save one American is no hero.

And hey, if I find one spec of disrespect or hate for michael moore, PEOPLE WILL GET HURT. MICHAEL MOORE IS A LEGEND AND EXPOSED THE TRUTH TO EVERYONE HE IS AN AWESOME PERSON WHY ISNT HE BRITISH JUST WHY ??

I have a lot of disrespect for Michael Moore.

Technically it would be that I have a lack of respect for him. But on that note, I have a lack of respect for a lot of people. :laugh:

As to “war heroes”… I have never seen a soldier call himself a hero. It is his brothers in arms, his family and those that recognize his efforts that call him a hero. So you would have to ask them what defines a “ware Hero” in their eyes.

Silas Mercury wrote: And hey, if I find one spec of disrespect or hate for michael moore, PEOPLE WILL GET HURT. MICHAEL MOORE IS A LEGEND AND EXPOSED THE TRUTH TO EVERYONE HE IS AN AWESOME PERSON WHY ISNT HE BRITISH JUST WHY ??

i honestly lol'd when i read this

it looks like you take seriously what youre saying here, but i find the idea of respecting michael moore to be downright silly, and it tickled me when i read your comment

i was having a rough morning and you helped make it better, thank you

i have liked and respected silly people too, so please dont think im looking down on you, its a normal part of growing up, but i have to ask you; are you going to hurt me for voicing my opinion?

i think michael moore is a great capitalist; he applies his talents and abilities to a field which has made him millions of dollars and worldwide recognition

he likes to extol the evils of capitalism and capitalists, especially white capitalists, but that proves him a either a two faced hypocrite or an idiot, more than any kind of civic icon

so he is a great capitalist, but he is lousy as a journalist or social commentator because his work is always ideologically driven and willfully blind

its meant to fling mud and proselytize on behalf of an agenda, not to really investigate or expose real cause and effect relationships or pursue realistic and healthy ideas for cultural change

his fact checking is-- well he doesnt check his facts very well at all, or choose his words precisely based on facts, as the garbage posted above makes clear

he basically is a liar (in the sense that he presents situations in ways that are deliberately slanted) who (probably) believes himself to be (mostly) telling the truth, but is either not objective enough or just not smart enough to really do proper, unbiased research

michael moore is a leftist version of ann coulter or rush limbaugh (in the usa)

there are much better examples of journalistic courage and integrity to be found

Silas Mercury wrote: And hey, if I find one spec of disrespect or hate for michael moore, PEOPLE WILL GET HURT. MICHAEL MOORE IS A LEGEND AND EXPOSED THE TRUTH TO EVERYONE HE IS AN AWESOME PERSON WHY ISNT HE BRITISH JUST WHY ??

I don't know you very well yet so I'm going to guess that there are one of two things happening. 1) You're joking, in which case I love it. :laugh: 2) You're serious in which case I would recommend not threatening physical violence against the members here. The fact that you did threaten physical violence and put this in all caps though leads me to believe it was the first one. :laugh:

Now back to the subject at hand.

We must remember that the news gives us a teeny tiny snapshot of what happens in our world. I am not denying that minorities are being killed by police. I am not denying that it happens with more frequency than white people being killed by police. I am not denying that there are good cops and bad cops and good people and bad people. I am only saying that the media will tell you whatever they think will get you to watch/read/click them and as we all know death and racial tension gets those ratings higher than almost anything else.

We must also remember that for every person killed by police there are hundreds, even thousands of times that a person is stopped by police and everything goes smoothly. No one, police or civilian, gets hurt. A teeny tiny fraction of a percent of police stops result in someone's death, do not let the media tell you any different.

The biggest problem is that the media is perpetuating this "us vs them" concept and people are buying it. We are all people. People need to stop killing people. White, black, cop, civilian, mexican, muslim, European, man, woman, gay, straight, it does not matter.

The thing that upsets me more than any of this is the constant use of the labels to define the people. Every time a cop does anything to a person of any minority the headline starts with "White cop does x to [minority]" or they just say it was a cop but the story will say "They have not yet released the race of the officer(s)." It makes me sick. The media doesn't see anyone as people, they see them as a label that they can use to boost ratings and while that sucks it is their job to do so. We just have to remember that is what they are doing.

This image really stood out to me and I wanted to share it here.



The beauty of grace in the face of... aggression? fear? suspicion? I don't know the right word.

tzb wrote: This image really stood out to me and I wanted to share it here.

The beauty of grace in the face of... aggression? fear? suspicion? I don't know the right word.

I wonder what was behind her? Or behind the cops? Or behind the photographer? It is a powerful and beautiful image, but it is only part of the story. Are the cops protecting something behind them? Is she in front of a group of peaceful protesters? Is she in front of a mob and armed rioters? Is she there alone? Was this image staged? All questions that I want to know before I assume that either party is in the wrong.

It feels like this image was taken with the intent to show one side of the story and not both. It shows one lone woman and an army of police in riot gear. Maybe that's all there was to it, but that seems very unlikely to me.

Edit: I love how her dress is kind of billowing out around her.

Goken wrote: It feels like this image was taken with the intent to show one side of the story and not both. It shows one lone woman and an army of police in riot gear. Maybe that's all there was to it, but that seems very unlikely to me.

It's more likely the photo was just taken... because it just happened to be taken, not because it was set up with some kind of agenda aiming to show "one side of the story." It was taken by a Reuters photojournalist.

Anyway, if you want to know the story , or "the truth" as it were: the short version is that she was standing on a road the police were clearing by force, not moving or speaking, and the police rushing toward her in the photograph detained her — according to the photographer, other eyewitnesses and the woman herself. Sometimes there is only one side to a story.

Silas Mercury wrote: And hey, if I find one spec of disrespect or hate for michael moore, PEOPLE WILL GET HURT.

I'll give you my home address and you can come hurt me if you dare, Silas. Good luck.