Help me resist the dark side...

I belong to a certain website where people answer and ask questions where I like to offer advice, ask questions, or comment on other peoples beliefs. I am new to the order but wondering how people deal with the dark side during a disagreement with other people. The element of the dark side I speak of is a feeling I get in my stomach part anger and part despair when someone does not see my side of the argument. Even now as I rationalize that my pride and vanity are causing this feeling I still have a desire to battle with this person over the ideals. I know this is in direct defiance of the Maxims so any advice on how to deal with these feeling?

This happens to me too. I think that you're already half way there. You realize why you do it. Pride and vanity are causing you to fight for your point of view. Knowing this helps with the next part, letting it go.

It is very dependent on the situation, but many times if a person is just not seeing your side then there isn't always a lot that you can do. Getting angry doesn't help so you may need to just walk away. If you realize that the only reason you are fighting is your pride then it becomes easier to let it go. You can tell yourself that there isn't really a reason to argue about it. Does winning the argument do anything other than add a tick in your win column? If no, then let it go.

It's kind of a cliche, but it's still solid advice, I think. Growing up I was told the standard "count to 10" which didn't always help. Maybe pick something to recite, like the Code or the Creed. I like using those because it not only makes me stop and breathe but it reminds me of what I'm aiming for and trying to accomplish with my life.

All easier said than done, I know. I hope that helps.

I agree with much of what Goken has shared. Often we are so focused on winning that we miss the point of argument in the first place. The exercise should have a goal of sharing knowledge and learning from the other, not beating them.

I once read an article that compared arguing to romantic relationships, and it made a lot of sense to me. Do you argue as a rapist who wants to dominate another? Do you argue as a seducer who deceives to get what they want? Or do you argue as a lover who is equally interested in the feelings of the other person? I ask myself these questions often when I feel my emotions getting away from me.

And speaking of emotion, reciting the Code in my head helps as well. Say it over and over and you will find your mind calm and your emotions more manageable. Emotion, yet peace. Passion, yet serenity. People sometimes become passionate and emotional about their point of view. Seek the peace and find the serenity. Everyone will benefit from it.

We all have had those difficult times. It is best to step back and take a moment to reanalyze who you are talking to. the person may be trying to illicit just that response from you because they know it means they win. When you break from the code, those who attack your beliefs have won. they dont care about the argument they care about what they can do to you.

then there are the times when both parties are amenable, but neither party can or will change their mind on their arguments. this is natural and you must not strive to win them over. there is no ignorance, there is knowledge. Know that others will not always understand or agree with what you believe.

Look at the universe for what it is: an enormous container of all possible opinions, of which yours is only one in a trillion trillion.

Identifying hurt pride as the source of anger gives you power over these negative feelings that do indeed affect our bodies.

This insight serves you well.

Whenever I feel such things I stop and retrace the causes until I find the hurt pride. It lies in the darkness but not alone. Fear lies hidden there also. This discovery then is like a light that when shone upon these hidden corners reveals something of our deepest selves, our needs and wants. Then, under this brave gaze, pride evaporates, fear fades and so also, eventually, the need for an ego.

Some of my favorite Buddhist teachings are...

"You cannot change others, change must come from within. The only thing we can change absolutely is ourselves, our attitudes, our outlook. No one can stop you from changing what is inside of you."

"If you throw a ball very hard at a wall, it is not the walls fault and it is not because of any intentions on the walls part that the ball bounces back at you. It is not that the wall is aggressive. It is you that is the cause of the balls return."

"Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions"

"The wellspring of all strife is the words we speak. The voice is the instigator of quarrels. No one can know what you think inside, but the tongue , being as nasty as it is, cannot stay silent."

"Knowing one shortcoming within yourself is more useful than knowing a thousand in someone else."

When in a debate with someone else, always start with the premise that you are here to learn something, not teach something. When you start from this perspective, the mind learns to stay open and unencumbered by prejudice. In my youth, I also had this problem (and sometimes even now), until one day I was walking with a buddy of mine. While we were walking, a kid from another street was walking in the opposite direction. I made some snide comment about him being dorky and stupid. My buddy turned to me and said..."How do you know they are not saying the same thing about you?"

It is your ego that presumes that only you are correct. As was previously stated...

Look at the universe for what it is: an enormous container of all possible opinions, of which yours is only one in a trillion trillion.

Are you that sure of your knowledge, and your presents in the world, that there are no other possibilities?

My last piece of...whatever. Remember that there are many sides to a story. Your side, his side, the bystanders side, and the truth. Which does not care about your ego or the other persons ego, only the truth. It does not judge or take sides. IT IS, like the Force itself. Light needs dark, right needs wrong, truth needs lies. You can ask any martial artist and they will tell you that the best way to counter a straight forward attack is to circle around. All things need nothing.

you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...the thirst must come from within....

you can advise/debate until you're blue in the face, but you can't make someone change their perspective...they have to choose to...

when you realize this it gets easier to simply walk away when you feel your anger rising....

and this always helps me:
take a deep breath in, and exhale slowly while saying faaaaaaaah kit....(note this is not totjo's method, just mine and the word can be changed to one of your personal choosing)

Thank you RyuJin. I always thought it was "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think." I stand corrected. (I've read a lot of Dorothy Parker.)

And you're right Phortis Nespin.

A Zen Master was visiting New York city and decided to try a hot dog. He went to a street vendor and said, "Make me one with everything." He gave the vendor a twenty dollar bill and got his hot dog. The vendor turned away from him to the next customer. The Master said, "I gave you a twenty dollar bill and only ordered one hot dog. Where is the change?" The vendor replied, "You of all people should know - change must come from within."

i almost used that one :lol: