Jedi and "Drugs"

I'm a very consistent addict on all kinds of substances actually... I take oxygen, h2O, vitamins A, B, C, D, E, and K, fiber, hemoglobin etc from protein, carbohydrate, dopamine, endocannabinoids, oxytocin, endorphins, GABA, and typically find myself craving saratonin but sometimes having to go without unfortunately. Psychologically and/or biologically I am very reliant on these things for one reason or another. Some of these can result in the "hurting" of others and even myself sometimes, but I still crave and want them and have them anyway. I also may have an addiction to music (listening and creating). Going without it for long periods of time is very uncomfortable and a great deal of stress and anxiety builds up in withdrawal. Exposure to it seems to relieve this. :dry:

I only drink coffee, I don't drink or take drugs for i like to be clear minded in everything I do. Don't get me wrong I have taken drugs and I drunk alcohol in the past but it always clouded my judgement so I decided to knock it on the head now I feel much healthier for quiting

Oh I do take painkillers for my injured knee lol

One thing about addiction - it's been said that often addiction sets in before one is aware... but generally, that's quite true, especially for intensely processed products (chemical drugs)... for gardened things which grow from the ground and are only organically "processed" (grapes + sugars, yeast, age = wine... barley & hops + sugars, yeast, age = beer... berries &/or honey + yeast, age = mead, etc.), or medicinal teas (mint, ginger, nutmeg), smoked botanicals (red willow bark = acetylsalicylic acid, a.k.a. aspirin, mugwort for a bronchial dilator, cannabis for x/y/z), etc. - such (according to each, if addicting) would generally for the most part be more easily identifiable as whether or not the balance goes on one side of the fence or the other, as far as which is serving which (you or the substance), or which is consuming which.

But how I feel about the use of substances? Fine, absolutely, assuming appropriateness of reason, as well as situation, I suppose. Time and place. Also, premeditated use - not so much on a spontaneous whim. Purpose. For me there needs to be purpose.

Even "recreational", I don't take too lightly. Where will I be? Who with? Would I endanger those depending on me? That last question has commanding rule on quantity.

Of course, my idea of recreation is usually something which shouldn't mix with drinking - like tree climbing and skateboarding.

But around a campfire for example, yeah, okay - toss me a cold one

if people want to make the assertion that being an alcoholic or a drug addict is somehow analogous to being dedicated to training or to enjoying music then go for it - the overwhelmingly well documented and blatantly obvious reality is that you are wrong - its your life, and theres not much you could be doing that is any worse than what i have done myself
certainly im no less affected by the issue than anyone else in the discussion and i have no illusions that i am in any way better than anyone else, but i know what life has taught me on this issue and ive good reason to belive the lesson ends up pretty much the same for pretty nearly everybody

i sincerely wish you the best

peace

OB1Shinobi wrote: but am i the only one who has the sense that as jedi we should hold ourselves to a more demanding (lol i almost said HIGHER) standard

is there not even a base line minimum of developmental health necessary before one is considered a jedi?

I'm not aware of any minimum level of developmental health required to be a Jedi, or at least such a level would be incredibly low that not being able to be a Jedi would likely be the least of their concerns.

If a Jedi is seeking to improve themselves then, if a Jedi came to me for help for instance, then I would encourage them to try and free themselves from their addiction for all the reasons previously mentioned in this thread. We should try and hold ourselves to a high standard, though we must be careful before we try to enforce this standard or judge others if our Self-standards differ.

Venator Mortis wrote: Marijuana doesn't scientifically do any long term harm. The most intelligent people have done it.(Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Carl Sagan, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, the list goes on) that why I think it should be legal and is ok in Jediism.

Actually now that it's becoming more and more legalised scientists have been able to conduct more studies and there are possible problems which can result from the usage of marijuana. It can reduce the amount of grey matter in the brain, though interestingly this appears to be counter-acted by an increase in neural connections across some regions in the brain (exact details on this process are unknown). Marijuana can lead to a long-term decrease in IQ (though it's also unclear if this is the result of other factors such as drinking habits and continued education). Marijuana can also cause users to generate more false-memories.

All the above research is still on-going and much of this studies "heavy-users" (those who smoke marijuana at least once a day), so milder use of course won't have so severe an effect (one would think at least).

To add to your list, I heard it rumoured Obama has also smoked some.

Kitsu Tails wrote: In my guideline it asks "Is it illegal?" As Jedi we should always strive to Uphold the Laws. If it is Illegal then you probubly should avoid it.

If laws and the motivations behind them were actually consistent then maybe, but as has already been mentioned alcohol is at least just as bad as some Mary Jane, and do we really think nicotine would pass modern-day health and safety concerns if tobacco products were invented now?

When punishments are still subject to racial/class bias and whether or not the judge is having a bad day, adhering to a rule because it's the rule is silly.

Adder wrote: Otherwise its like any other substance, do you know what it really is, and who are you supporting by acquiring it.

The biggest benefactors of anti-drug laws are drug cartels. From a purely economic perspective all drug criminalisation does is allow cartels to create monopolies and charge excessively more money than would normally be the case. It's an unintended side-effect, but the government is as much a criminal as the person who takes the "illegal" substance.

Legalise drugs and you'll destroy drug cartels - an absurdly counter-intuitive proposal if ever there was one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NtnT5PALEA

OB1Shinobi wrote: if people want to make the assertion that being an alcoholic or a drug addict is somehow analogous to being dedicated to training or to enjoying music then go for it - the overwhelmingly well documented and blatantly obvious reality is that you are wrong - its your life, and theres not much you could be doing that is any worse than what i have done myself
certainly im no less affected by the issue than anyone else in the discussion and i have no illusions that i am in any way better than anyone else, but i know what life has taught me on this issue and ive good reason to belive the lesson ends up pretty much the same for pretty nearly everybody

i sincerely wish you the best

peace

I was not speaking of being dedicated to training.

I am talking about not being able to go without it.

Even at the detriment to your health, finances, family.

Also, do not presume you are the only one with life lessons behind them.

You can state boldly that others are wrong, but the vast ignorance you have for the collective life experience you state that about only proves you need to be right before anything else.

Your ultimate dismissal of others input when not in concordance with your own makes me think I am probably wasting my time with responding, but at the same time, to let it go is only allowing such non sense to perpetuate, and thats not good for you, or other.

All the best

You can keep the peace, I have no use for it.

on the issue of policy i am in support of at the least decriminalization with treatment being the focus rather punishment

most of the problems of illegal drugs are created or exacerbated by the facts surrounding their illegality

which is not to mention the lack of solid research for the undiscovered medical benefits of some of them, which has been mentioned already

Khaos
the conclusion that i draw from what youre saying is that an unhealthy person can find a way to make anything they do into an unhealthy event

i am not disagreeing with that

also i am not simply dismissing others experience - the medical research and personal testimonials of millions or possibly billions of people is a google search away

the position that i am taking is that drug addiction (i consider alcohol a drug) is unhealthy and that it has a tendancy to get worse as time goes on

this is established medical fact, validated by a great deal of personal experience and observation

i know that there are people who do drugs and who drink and it doesnt really take much of a toll on their lives

also i know there are people who get it under control and either disengage from the behavior or restrict it enough to maintain functionality in their lives - this is what i think is accurately described as "recreational" use

i am talking specifically about addiction and abuse and my assertion is no more extreme than that it is unhealthy and ought to be addressed

I wholly support the legalization of all drugs which are not instantly fatal for recreational use. I believe that a human being should be free to do whatever they want with their own body so long as they do not harm anyone else. I also believe that this would subtract greatly from gang-related deaths, the number of people in prison, etc. while also creating new income for the government through taxation. Also, it would allow the government to regulate these drugs so that a "bad batch" doesn't go through and kill anyone.
Being as I don't know many people who would go out and do cocaine if it were suddenly legal, I don't see the issue with this stance at all.
I wouldn't personally take drugs that would damage me seriously, and if I consume alcohol or something I make good decisions (e.g. not driving), I don't see the issue with this at all. The "drugs are all bad no matter what" answer is ridiculous and I will not even humor it.

A good way to throw out the BS in discussing different natures of suffering addiction (by definition all addictions should be suffering IMO else they are better called something else) I find is to split the concept of it into two parts and associate a percentage breakup. Being physiological (chemical reinforcement as reward) and psychological (habit reinforcement as reward).

Noting not all chemical reinforcement has to be 'drugs', as sex, music and exercise for example produce chemicals in the brain which are analogous or identical to some drugs.

Now something like listening to music 'will' have a chemical component, its just that it is not introduced as a drug to the body but rather perhaps used like a drug by listening to particular music - and with sufficient habit reinforcement can probably program the reward system of the brain to have an effect like that suffered by drug users with addictions. So for music I'd put the breakup at 5/95 and for heroine at 95/5 for example LOL, but we all know some things are way more addictive then others, and those figures do not represent the experience of a person, just the 'moment' or potential or perhaps power of the isolated activity..... so you could probably work up a formula about how the continued use and reinforcement by reward would create a dependency, and I think its the dependency which defines something as an addiction.

So I guess its important to understand the potential for dependency as lose of control, lose of self and maybe even understand how to counter-act it when it occurs - before risking it.

In my regrettable days of silly things I was told to read a lot of writings by people who'd been down those roads and I'm glad I did because being forewarned is being forearmed. The difference between the habit and chemical is that the chemical heavy dependency will likely end up killing you, while a habit just makes you really unhappy, at least in my experience, but hey, being really unhappy can kill a person too
:S

So to measure it perhaps its variables are habit reinforcement, chemical reinforcement, exposure to reinforcement and the two bundles of indirect experiences which relate to the activity, both positive and negative, which go to the intensity of overall reinforcement and likelihood of continued or cessation of future reinforcement.
:side: :whistle: