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Comfortable Empathy
In a thread I read this evening, there was discussion about desensitisation to the levels of brutality and gore in pictures and films (such as Hostel) and someone made a comment about whether it was possible that such images could put someone in a position where empathy is no longer comfortable. The original OP was about the feelings such images evoke in people (and I clicked a link I can now never unsee).
We usually talk about empathy with regards to (generally) negative emotions; sadness, grief, anger.. I've never thought of these as particularly comfortable. It's why charities use pictures of malnourished children and brutalised animals on tv adverts.
Can empathy ever be comfortable? Is there a point at which we can no longer empathise?
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- Alexandre Orion
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We just notice it a little more perhaps when the negative side of Life conjures up empathy as compassion.
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It's true that we often manipulate emotion in order to provoke a particular reaction: to show things that shock or horrify you in order to motivate you to act in a particular fashion, but it's worth noting that this is sympathy, and not empathy: you would need to experience some of how the other person feels in order for it to classify as empathy. We really have no true sense of the desperation or misery felt by a starving child, or one struck by disfiguring disease, or any of the other multitude of images that we see on the TV. Why? Because we're sitting at a TV while we see them: our sense of deprivation is very different to theirs. We don't often experience the things they go through. So such media plays upon our sympathy for their plight, rather than by provoking any empathy we might feel regarding being in that same position.
Allow me to ask you a question, though: faced with a situation where you can feel someone else's suffering or misery, would you truly want to feel comfortable? I've often found that, as much as we speak of good deeds and the intentions behind them, we often have to reflect to good actions stem from our own self-interest: we feel bad when we see something bad going on, and we feel better if we help in some way, to find resolution. I've very little doubt that it's not that simple on a conscious level, but the benefits of helping in those situations are fairly evident. Surely that initial feeling of discomfort serves as a motivating force, provoking you to act? If you felt comfortable witnessing misery or suffering, would you be inclined to act to alleviate it?
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- OB1Shinobi
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the more in touch we are with our own feelings the more we will be able to relate to the feelings of others
a person may stop feeling empathy and sympathy and this can be both health and unhealthy
the unhealthy thing would be to deaden ones own feelings or to revel in the pain of another
the healthy way is to have an absolute sense of ones own personal responsibility and personal competence to determine ones life and to see that this is equally true for all of us
the healthy way to empathize is to just experience and share the feeling deeply as if it were your own without the need to judge someone or to save them but the sincere wish for their success
i dont know if sympathy is ever healthy
i feel its insulting to both parties - but i could be wrong about all of this
EDIT
and this is not the same as to saythat we should not be beneficial influences on one another
i consider it my personal responsibility to participate in the most beneficial way i am able in every situation i am in
but it is not my responsibility to make life easy (or difficult) for anyone
People are complicated.
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So does our capacity for empathy really dissolve when we reach the point where we see situations we haven't had experience of? I can't think of a situation off the top of my head, but could it be possible that one could feel empathy for a situation they haven't had experience of, based on other experiences?
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- OB1Shinobi
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Edan wrote: Definitely in some situations, you wouldn't want empathy to be comfortable, because empathy can be one of those things that causes us to act in cases where we should act.
So does our capacity for empathy really dissolve when we reach the point where we see situations we haven't had experience of? I can't think of a situation off the top of my head, but could it be possible that one could feel empathy for a situation they haven't had experience of, based on other experiences?
some parts of my response depend to a great extent on what you belive about human perceptual capability
it is definitely possible to project our own feelings onto others (many people "love" pets that they clearly mistreat for this very reason) and i this event it is not empathy but sympathy
it is rooted in ones own feelings about ones self first and so the "empathetic" element is only present when its convenient
there are no feelings which any of us ever feel that all of us do not also feel
we have a unique BLEND of experiences
and a unique blend of how intense a particular feeling is in any given context
but the essential feelings are there for us all and if or when we desire we have the inherent ability to amplify or nullify any of them to whatever degree we choose
to be able to do this at will is a quite an accomplishment and requires a great deal of control, which takes time and perspective to aquire, but it is an accomplishment of which we are all basically capable
so it doest matter the situation
the feelings are there regardless
the disconnect is a matter of how in touch you as the observer are with your own feelings and how much control you have over their intensity
if you allow that we are energetic beings in an energetic multiverse
if you belive that the force exists as literal life energy
then this goes even further
that we can not only feel each others feelings, directly from each other, but that we can even be pulled into them
or pull others into ours
there is a time and place for everything
People are complicated.
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The self-confidence of the warrior is not the self-confidence of the average man. The average man seeks certainty in the eyes of the onlooker and calls that self-confidence. The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eyes and calls that humbleness. The average man is hooked to his fellow men, while the warrior is hooked only to infinity.
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- OB1Shinobi
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Reacher wrote: One thing I always thought curious when I studied them was that there is very little violence or death onstage for the Greek tragedies. Most often a messenger would inform the audience of what occurred or the doomed would exit finally and ominously. Part of the reason for this was because the tragedies were a form of worship during a festival, and death - even depicted - might seem blasphemous. I always did think it was a wonderful mechanism for empathy, regardless. The audience imagined the event - thereby making it very intimate to each person based on their own perception of death and violence. Contrast that against the Roman culture...pankration and boxing vs the Coliseum. Interesting juxtaposition as we explore this topic. One seemed to glory in human form and capability while the other in its destruction and gore.
in a way this is even more frightening imo
the movies that always scared me the most were things like the exorcist and the ring ect and i was least frightened by jason or michael myers or any slasher style
what ive heard from several people who are the opposite is that the slasher flick and its latest evolution, the torture context (which i feel is really unhealthy at every level) are more frightening because they have more affinity with real life possibility
for me the idea of non physical consciousness has always been theoretically possible so the "realness" of it was not so clearly defined but what i found frightening was the of something which i could not physically affect but it could affect me
even though they were technically indestructable the slashers are always physical beings who can be at least delayed by physical means, so they can be fought
the idea for me was that the greater my ability to affect the antagonist the less frightening it eventually becomes
what you describe in the greek tragedies, for a strong imagination is maybe the most frightening of all
its those who are least able to put themselves into the context who will have the least understanding of this
if you can immerse yourself in the story from.the experience of the character
then by the time he leaves the stage to meet a fate which is likely just as ominous as it is vague
this can be pretty unsettling if you dont have some mental mechanism for limiting your imagery
i mean its the stuff of nightmares, really
if one can sufficiently immerse ones self in an internal construction
i.e. to see and hear and feel and smell the context that one is constructing
from this state the body will show the same physiological responses as what would be present if one were experiencing the context in reality
a way to highligh this is to understand that both the body and mind of a person who is having a complete sensory hallucination are unaware that it is a hallucination,the body belives in the hallucination just as much as the mind
and so things like adrenaline and cortisol as well as neuro synaptical activity and just the entire spectrum of physiological response are all engaged in exactly the same way as would happen if the hallucination were real
to a greater or lesser extent this is what happens when we watch a well constructed movie or listen to a well made song or even read a good book
i think this would be the cause of a person eventually not feeling empathy or at least not connecting with the feeling very strongly
because after being subjected to the physiological experiences of emotionally traumatizing and highly stressful imagery the body just gets worn down on it and hits the emotional STOP button as defensive mechanism
this is possible but its not healthy
it would basically be a self induced PTSD to some or another degree
the question does however lead to a very interesting line lf thought
if this is all true (and i welcome anyone interested to dig around for a while because this is real jedi stuff here)
what are the potential uses for this?
if we allow that our minds can construct settings so powerfully that our bodies belive them to be real, what kind of applications might that have for a jedi?
People are complicated.
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Someone who is analytical, for instance, might see the starving child in the commercial and immediately begin to seek a practical solution to the problem. They will research a charity and calculate what portion of their donation will actually reach the starving child and then determine if donating is the correct action or not based on the impact it will have. They may decide to choose a different charity based on their research, or go to the local food kitchen and volunteer instead. Hungry children is an equation to be solved. These people may shield themselves from feeling uncomfortable by bottling up the emotions in favor of reason and logic. This removes the horror of the situation. Many first responders will tell you that they have to do this just to get through a day. Imagine an EMT that empathized with every car accident victim they encountered. They would go insane.
On the other hand, someone who is an emotional empath may shed tears while watching the commercial and experience a truly visceral reaction. They will feel compelled to act out of sympathy, and will possibly feel guilty that they cannot do more. If the sad wet dog commercial comes on next, they may find themselves emotionally torn and possibly depressed. These people could become paralyzed into inaction because the situation seems hopeless. Many veterans returning from WWII described this feeling. At a certain point the emotional impact of the situation becomes so overwhelming that the brain and body just shut down.
As with anything else, I imagine a Jedi should seek balance. It is okay to FEEL, but we should not be ruled by emotion. We should empathize, but not allow ourselves to become jaded or desensitized to the point that empathy no longer feels necessary. We are not robots, but we should not be warm and fuzzy huggers all the time either. Jedi should make a beneficial impact when they can, but understand that sometimes we cannot. There is no reason to feel uncomfortable about that.
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