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Cultural misappropriation
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27 Aug 2014 03:14 - 27 Aug 2014 03:54 #157502
by Brenna
Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet
Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.
With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
Cultural misappropriation was created by Brenna
Its fashion week here in NZ, and there been some feathers flying (if you'll excuse the pun) at the fact that a very well known local designer sent a model down the runway dressed like this...
Naturally there has been a lot of discussion on it which I've been watching with interest, and I was wondering what the opinions here are.
Edit - for interest, this is an article thats surfaced several times during the discussions... http://nativeappropriations.com/2010/04/but-why-cant-i-wear-a-hipster-headdress.html
Attachment h6cc7173.jpg not found
Naturally there has been a lot of discussion on it which I've been watching with interest, and I was wondering what the opinions here are.
Edit - for interest, this is an article thats surfaced several times during the discussions... http://nativeappropriations.com/2010/04/but-why-cant-i-wear-a-hipster-headdress.html
Walking, stumbling on these shadowfeet
Part of the seduction of most religions is the idea that if you just say the right things and believe really hard, your salvation will be at hand.
With Jediism. No one is coming to save you. You have to get off your ass and do it yourself - Me
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Last edit: 27 Aug 2014 03:54 by Brenna.
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27 Aug 2014 03:39 - 27 Aug 2014 04:15 #157503
by RyuJin
Quotes:
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Replied by RyuJin on topic Cultural misappropriation
In the words of the joker "why so serious"....
I think people take things waaaaay too seriously...I'm sure there were/are people that felt "offended" by this....they need to unbunch their panties from their backsides and loosen up....some of these same people that get offended laugh at stereotypes of other groups, which makes them hypocrites of the worst kind...if you can't laugh at yourself you have no right to laugh at others...
It's a fashion show....costumes...nothing more...aren't there more important social issues than what some half starved woman was asked to wear?
Obviously the author of the article has never been to some of the festivals here...the chasco indians and seminoles do in fact sell headdresses and other native made goods...they also host a 3week long seminar educating on native traditions...and most of the natives I've met don't share the concerns as the author...they're more progressive...years ago some group was trying to force florida state university to change their mascot (their mascot is a seminole indian) the seminole tribe came to the defense of the school, not the group trying to force the change...
I'm part cheyenne indian myself and I don't see the big deal...maybe because I grew up in the "white community"...or perhaps most likely becauseI know how to get over it and move forward instead of clinging to the past
I think people take things waaaaay too seriously...I'm sure there were/are people that felt "offended" by this....they need to unbunch their panties from their backsides and loosen up....some of these same people that get offended laugh at stereotypes of other groups, which makes them hypocrites of the worst kind...if you can't laugh at yourself you have no right to laugh at others...
It's a fashion show....costumes...nothing more...aren't there more important social issues than what some half starved woman was asked to wear?
Obviously the author of the article has never been to some of the festivals here...the chasco indians and seminoles do in fact sell headdresses and other native made goods...they also host a 3week long seminar educating on native traditions...and most of the natives I've met don't share the concerns as the author...they're more progressive...years ago some group was trying to force florida state university to change their mascot (their mascot is a seminole indian) the seminole tribe came to the defense of the school, not the group trying to force the change...
I'm part cheyenne indian myself and I don't see the big deal...maybe because I grew up in the "white community"...or perhaps most likely becauseI know how to get over it and move forward instead of clinging to the past
Warning: Spoiler!
There is passion, yet there is peace
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Through passion I gain strength and knowledge
Through strength and knowledge I gain victory
Through victory I gain peace and harmony
Through peace and harmony my chains are broken
There is no death, there is the force and it shall free me
Quotes:
Warning: Spoiler!
Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine
J.L.Lawson,Master Knight, M.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
Last edit: 27 Aug 2014 04:15 by RyuJin.
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27 Aug 2014 05:35 #157510
by
Replied by on topic Cultural misappropriation
My uncle did teach to me to play and interact with feathers
all the time...
He was my main father in my upbringing,because my real
father was working many hours.
I have aboriginal blood ancestry by part of great great
grandmother,I think.(lineage of blood of my mother)
Maybe Mapuche of the Pampas.
Is a mix of diverse tribes here.
I did grow with tools around my of aboriginal cultures:
arrows, and others.
As a game,my uncle did putting feathers in my head,and
he explain that this means sign of leadership.
When I boy,thats was a great thing for me.
Gave me courage
My uncle was celebrating all the time,in all place when he discover
feathers...T.V movies...publicity in streets...or
wherever he see with laughs and sharing,maybe because this for him
was meaning remember the Pampa (place where he born) and their culture.
But all time,did know thats means authorithy and sign of honor.
I think he was happy to look feathers in all places.
My uncle was drives a taxi and become in a very modern citizen with
some elements of misticism (heal with words) know the future weather
and a supernatural cunning to fight and hunt...
One day a thief in back of their taxi with a gun
make menaces to him.
He did catch the hand with gun ,
bite ear,and cut a part with their teeth !!
I remember him like a hero, in the style of
Cocodrilo Dundee.
One day thief empty their summer house,and he look a thread,
(thief go with sewing box)...
He followed,to the point to discovered the path of the thief.
all the time...
He was my main father in my upbringing,because my real
father was working many hours.
I have aboriginal blood ancestry by part of great great
grandmother,I think.(lineage of blood of my mother)
Maybe Mapuche of the Pampas.
Is a mix of diverse tribes here.
I did grow with tools around my of aboriginal cultures:
arrows, and others.
As a game,my uncle did putting feathers in my head,and
he explain that this means sign of leadership.
When I boy,thats was a great thing for me.
Gave me courage
My uncle was celebrating all the time,in all place when he discover
feathers...T.V movies...publicity in streets...or
wherever he see with laughs and sharing,maybe because this for him
was meaning remember the Pampa (place where he born) and their culture.
But all time,did know thats means authorithy and sign of honor.
I think he was happy to look feathers in all places.
My uncle was drives a taxi and become in a very modern citizen with
some elements of misticism (heal with words) know the future weather
and a supernatural cunning to fight and hunt...
One day a thief in back of their taxi with a gun
make menaces to him.
He did catch the hand with gun ,
bite ear,and cut a part with their teeth !!
I remember him like a hero, in the style of
Cocodrilo Dundee.
One day thief empty their summer house,and he look a thread,
(thief go with sewing box)...
He followed,to the point to discovered the path of the thief.
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27 Aug 2014 11:10 - 27 Aug 2014 11:14 #157517
by J_Roz
"O Great Spirit, Help me always to speak the truth quietly, to listen with an open mind when others speak, and to remember the peace that may be found in silence"
Kaylee: How come you don't care where you're going?
Book: 'Cause how you get there is the worthier part.
Firefly Series
Apprenticed to: Phortis Nespin
Apprentices: None Currently
Replied by J_Roz on topic Cultural misappropriation
I'm actually heavily involved in this debate in my Native American community on stereotypes. What I can't understand is that someone that gets wildly up in arms with something like that image had absolutely no problem with the entire Twilight series genre. As RyuJin said "It's a fashion show....costumes...nothing more...aren't there more important social issues than what some half starved woman was asked to wear?"
In the last semester of classes I taught I had a student present on this very topic, she chose the Washington Redskin debate. She had a great perspective on it and even went further to talk about how she was a secretary at a local school district that was being sued for millions of dollars because the school Mascot was the "Midgets". So some guy who is legally considered a "Midget" is suing because he's offended. Her opinion was that mascots are mascots and should not be changed. Her classmates agreed with her.
Now that being said, having grown up in a Native American based family the thought of a Redneck drunk white guy wearing sacred regalia screaming at a football game sort of chafes me a bit. Not in the I'm going to the supreme court cause he's out of hand but perhaps a sadness because that guy doesn't understand my culture and what it mean to have feathers or headdresses. He's never been to a cultural event where a feather is dropped and elders surround the feather and pray to the Great Spirit and offer apologies to that energy that has fallen. Sometimes they even confiscate the feather to be re-gifted or used somewhere else. Or instead it is smudged along with the person who dropped it, prayed with and upon and the ceremony can continue. He also has not been part of the struggle of Native America for just trying to live. He doesn't know what it takes to earn a single feather, nor the sacredness of owning that feather and what it entails. He will never know what its like to defend his family with bows and arrows against cavalry, or have his children taken away and sent to boarding schools to have white society literally beaten into them. He will never know what it feels like to not even be treated as a citizen in his own lands or be able to practice his religion without prejudice.
I realize that same guy isn't wearing the same thing that my elders, my family, and my brothers are wearing but he's certainly trying to capture that idea. However I guess in being a bigger person, in the end its better to walk away and know in my heart what is true and authentic to my culture and people and never sell what we as a people consider sacred.
In the last semester of classes I taught I had a student present on this very topic, she chose the Washington Redskin debate. She had a great perspective on it and even went further to talk about how she was a secretary at a local school district that was being sued for millions of dollars because the school Mascot was the "Midgets". So some guy who is legally considered a "Midget" is suing because he's offended. Her opinion was that mascots are mascots and should not be changed. Her classmates agreed with her.
Now that being said, having grown up in a Native American based family the thought of a Redneck drunk white guy wearing sacred regalia screaming at a football game sort of chafes me a bit. Not in the I'm going to the supreme court cause he's out of hand but perhaps a sadness because that guy doesn't understand my culture and what it mean to have feathers or headdresses. He's never been to a cultural event where a feather is dropped and elders surround the feather and pray to the Great Spirit and offer apologies to that energy that has fallen. Sometimes they even confiscate the feather to be re-gifted or used somewhere else. Or instead it is smudged along with the person who dropped it, prayed with and upon and the ceremony can continue. He also has not been part of the struggle of Native America for just trying to live. He doesn't know what it takes to earn a single feather, nor the sacredness of owning that feather and what it entails. He will never know what its like to defend his family with bows and arrows against cavalry, or have his children taken away and sent to boarding schools to have white society literally beaten into them. He will never know what it feels like to not even be treated as a citizen in his own lands or be able to practice his religion without prejudice.
I realize that same guy isn't wearing the same thing that my elders, my family, and my brothers are wearing but he's certainly trying to capture that idea. However I guess in being a bigger person, in the end its better to walk away and know in my heart what is true and authentic to my culture and people and never sell what we as a people consider sacred.
"O Great Spirit, Help me always to speak the truth quietly, to listen with an open mind when others speak, and to remember the peace that may be found in silence"
Kaylee: How come you don't care where you're going?
Book: 'Cause how you get there is the worthier part.
Firefly Series
Apprenticed to: Phortis Nespin
Apprentices: None Currently
Last edit: 27 Aug 2014 11:14 by J_Roz.
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27 Aug 2014 12:20 #157520
by
Replied by on topic Cultural misappropriation
Maybe in off topic
I think aboriginal tribes need help in many ways and conscience.
in Latinamerica by example Kayapò Chief Raoni,
Felix Diaz Quom in Argentina
( please search who / if want in web)
Aboriginal rights is one of my worries.
I think aboriginal tribes need help in many ways and conscience.
in Latinamerica by example Kayapò Chief Raoni,
Felix Diaz Quom in Argentina
( please search who / if want in web)
Aboriginal rights is one of my worries.
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27 Aug 2014 12:27 - 27 Aug 2014 12:31 #157523
by Edan
It won't let me have a blank signature ...
Replied by Edan on topic Cultural misappropriation
Sorry to interject, but this has happened before,
See here
, and wait,
here too
. The first one though perhaps less... respectful (right word?).
I don't know what's right with this and what isn't; it isn't my culture so I don't really have the right to say whether or not anyone should be offended. If there is some degree of respect, then perhaps I don't see a problem.
I don't know what's right with this and what isn't; it isn't my culture so I don't really have the right to say whether or not anyone should be offended. If there is some degree of respect, then perhaps I don't see a problem.
It won't let me have a blank signature ...
Last edit: 27 Aug 2014 12:31 by Edan.
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27 Aug 2014 12:32 #157524
by J_Roz
"O Great Spirit, Help me always to speak the truth quietly, to listen with an open mind when others speak, and to remember the peace that may be found in silence"
Kaylee: How come you don't care where you're going?
Book: 'Cause how you get there is the worthier part.
Firefly Series
Apprenticed to: Phortis Nespin
Apprentices: None Currently
Replied by J_Roz on topic Cultural misappropriation
This kind of thing actually happens all the time.
Even if a person agrees or doesn't agree, people do love seeing traditional cultures that's why this continues. Is that a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Is it appropriate? Is it disrespectful? I don't have the answers to that.
In the end I guess we all need to make our own educated decisions.

In the end I guess we all need to make our own educated decisions.
"O Great Spirit, Help me always to speak the truth quietly, to listen with an open mind when others speak, and to remember the peace that may be found in silence"
Kaylee: How come you don't care where you're going?
Book: 'Cause how you get there is the worthier part.
Firefly Series
Apprenticed to: Phortis Nespin
Apprentices: None Currently
Please Log in to join the conversation.
27 Aug 2014 12:40 #157526
by
Replied by on topic Cultural misappropriation
I use the word ( "rights" )
"Aboriginal rights"
a little off topic
not about feathers strictly
"Aboriginal rights"
a little off topic
not about feathers strictly
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27 Aug 2014 13:08 #157528
by
Replied by on topic Cultural misappropriation
What would be people's reaction if someone dressed up in Nazi regalia? Or a burka?
I wouldn't force people not to wear such things, but I too would educate them on being more sensitive about the issues surrounding them.
There are two people in this situation, the person complaining and the person 'causing' the complaint.
Saying "Don't take things too seriously" puts everything on the person complaining, while letting the person 'causing' the complaint continue to act the same way.
Both parties need to be more conscientious.
I wouldn't force people not to wear such things, but I too would educate them on being more sensitive about the issues surrounding them.
There are two people in this situation, the person complaining and the person 'causing' the complaint.
Saying "Don't take things too seriously" puts everything on the person complaining, while letting the person 'causing' the complaint continue to act the same way.
Both parties need to be more conscientious.
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27 Aug 2014 14:08 #157530
by rugadd
rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic Cultural misappropriation
As my wife would say, "If it harm none, do as ye will.".
Obviously someone was harmed. We only act out when we feel attacked or we are hungry.
The Jedi in me says "Are you so attached to a costume or a symbol that you willfully allow another to suffer inorder to retain it?"
There is a reason I don't wear clothing with symbols on it anymore(mostly. People give you a gift its respectful to wer it a few times before you donate it)
But to balance that out, I enjoy seeing adults with the faces full of wonder and happiness, like a child. That is what many of these "misappropriations" do for people.
Obviously someone was harmed. We only act out when we feel attacked or we are hungry.
The Jedi in me says "Are you so attached to a costume or a symbol that you willfully allow another to suffer inorder to retain it?"
There is a reason I don't wear clothing with symbols on it anymore(mostly. People give you a gift its respectful to wer it a few times before you donate it)
But to balance that out, I enjoy seeing adults with the faces full of wonder and happiness, like a child. That is what many of these "misappropriations" do for people.
rugadd
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