Useless Things in the Star Wars Story?

As far as Force Realists go, there's theistic ones and nontheistic ones. I take a nontheistic perspective and define The Force as my own internal will. But that's for another thread.

It's a greater good situation though. If he'd've finished off Anakin and not succumbed to a darker temptation (source, RotS novel), the Emperor would have been deprived an apprentice and his plans may very well have been set back. But that could've set a whole bunch of other plans in motion. The Emperor's new apprentice could've been utterly ruthless, cruel and ambitious, and willing to hunt down the remaining Jedi.

RyuJin wrote:

SeanChing wrote: Episode IV, A New Hope: Greedo

This was difficult to decide, considering how few things Episode IV did wrong. It was a solid movie on its own, and I personally thought Star Wars would have been complete with or without the other movies added afterwards.

However, I digress. Let's examine Greedo.

He was some small-scale Rodian Bounty Hunter - hired by Jabba to capture Han Solo. Here's why he was useless, however. He didn't really do anything to add to the story, since he was simply easy target practice for Han Solo, not to mention a really bad excuse for any bounty hunter by any bounty hunting standards.

But what did he do wrong? A LOT! He was largely responsible for the whole "Han Shot First" controversy that got people obsessed about him in a completely negative way. To this day, despite him wearing a "Han Shot First" T-Shirt on occasion, Lucas never fully addressed the problem. He tried to edit the films a little, to make the shoot-out more even, but he never changed it back to the original version where Han shoots Greedo without Greedo's retaliation.

Now I know that there is debate on whether or not Han truly shot first or not. Some people, after all, claim that Greedo can be heard shooting first, even in the original version of "Star Wars" where Greeo's blaster isn't seen.


However, my main point is that Greedo brought a whole lot of controversy along with no significant contributions to the plot of Star Wars. That is why he was a useless element of Star Wars.

Ah, greedo's purpose (in the original release) was to show han as a true scoundrel/survivor that had no problem shooting first (basically doing whatever he had to to survive) with the re-edited release this purpose was sacrificed in order to display the lightning fast reflexes han was said to have in the novels ...

I agree with Ryu 100%, Greedo was key in displaying Han's 'anti-heroness' much like Uncle Ben getting snuffed out is key to Peter Parker's ascension to the road of becoming a hero. (Sorry, just watched Amazing Spiderman. lol)

Anyways, I wouldn't say Greedo was useless.

RyuJin wrote:
It's possible that obi-wan met dexter during his apprenticeship to qui-gon...remember qui-gon was considered a bit of a maverick/rogue so it's very likely he had some underworld contacts that gave him access to info the jedi wouldn't have...and he could have possibly taught obi-wan the value of these sort of information sources...and don't forget anakins association with the shady underworld types (watto anyone?)

I'd argue that Anakin was forced to associate and work with Watto, given that he was sold to him as a slave. Anakin didn't have a choice whether or not to associate with that underworld type of guy, in other words. On the other hand, it didn't seem like Obi-Wan was required to befriend Dexter - it's fair to say that he supposedly did it out of free choice. But would he really choose to befriend Dexter on his own? It doesn't really match his character.


Now, I do understand your argument that Qui-Gon, being a maverick, probably set Obi-Wan and Dexter up. However, I personally view Qui-Gon (while being a very cool character, thanks to Liem Neeson ) as a somewhat problematic character.


First of all, in the OT, Obi-Wan never mentioned Qui-Gon, and instead always referred to Yoda as his teaching master. In the PT, however, they tried to make it seem like Obi-Wan was SUPER attached to Qui-Gon

- Hugging him at death
- "Qui Gon would never join you!" to Count Dooku
- Reacting with excitement when Yoda tells Obi-Wan of Qui-Gon' return through Force Spirits, in Episode III.


It just seemed odd to me how disconnected Qui-Gon was from the OT, which led me to believe that he was never even considered at the time of the OT - making him a conflicting character.


So, how does this relate back to the original topic? Well, if Qui-Gon is (arguably) a conflicting/problematic character, who doesn't seem to "fit in" to the entire story very well, then wouldn't that also contribute to Obi-Wan and Dexter's friendship not fitting in to the entire story very well?

SeanChing wrote:

RyuJin wrote:
It's possible that obi-wan met dexter during his apprenticeship to qui-gon...remember qui-gon was considered a bit of a maverick/rogue so it's very likely he had some underworld contacts that gave him access to info the jedi wouldn't have...and he could have possibly taught obi-wan the value of these sort of information sources...and don't forget anakins association with the shady underworld types (watto anyone?)

I'd argue that Anakin was forced to associate and work with Watto, given that he was sold to him as a slave. Anakin didn't have a choice whether or not to associate with that underworld type of guy, in other words. On the other hand, it didn't seem like Obi-Wan was required to befriend Dexter - it's fair to say that he supposedly did it out of free choice. But would he really choose to befriend Dexter on his own? It doesn't really match his character.


Now, I do understand your argument that Qui-Gon, being a maverick, probably set Obi-Wan and Dexter up. However, I personally view Qui-Gon (while being a very cool character, thanks to Liem Neeson ) as a somewhat problematic character.


First of all, in the OT, Obi-Wan never mentioned Qui-Gon, and instead always referred to Yoda as his teaching master. In the PT, however, they tried to make it seem like Obi-Wan was SUPER attached to Qui-Gon

- Hugging him at death
- "Qui Gon would never join you!" to Count Dooku
- Reacting with excitement when Yoda tells Obi-Wan of Qui-Gon' return through Force Spirits, in Episode III.


It just seemed odd to me how disconnected Qui-Gon was from the OT, which led me to believe that he was never even considered at the time of the OT - making him a conflicting character.


So, how does this relate back to the original topic? Well, if Qui-Gon is (arguably) a conflicting/problematic character, who doesn't seem to "fit in" to the entire story very well, then wouldn't that also contribute to Obi-Wan and Dexter's friendship not fitting in to the entire story very well?

Dexter may look like a "sleezy underworldling" but that doesn't necessarily mean he is one...Jedi make friends with all kinds of people...For all we know Dexter may be a really good guy living in a bad area who happens to know his stuff...

And remember that due to his age at one point or another yoda did teach all of the jedi that appeared in both trilogies...we see this in ep2 when obi-wan goes to him asking about kamino and he's teaching the younglings to use light sabers....

In regards to anakins under world associations...yes it was a forced association, but it was an association none the less....I'm certain most traditional jedi would not have underworld connections, but there's always going to be the occasional wild card that breaks convention

Connor Lidell wrote: Grievous was an amazing duelist, I thought... what gave you the impression that he wasn't?

Stop grinning like that. Centre yourself, and see what is truly in the Grieve-force.

one day I meet a Jedi with a serious mind... Or at least. One can hope.

What the heck?

jack, i say this in all seriousness, one jedi to another:

your comments here don't seem to make sense. perhaps trying to be clearer in your communications would be more effective.