Chi?

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13 Jan 2021 03:31 #357686 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Chi?

Rex wrote: So a quick viewing of the acuhealth professional shows that all it does is provide a tiny amount of current out of two probes. It's like those muscle stimulation pads. There is 0 magnetism involved.


I'm not sure how it works, I'd assume electrical resistance or detecting a particular waveform or something in the circuit made with the patient... but I'd just be making things up as I don't know.
What I'm saying is the device (seems to) find the acupoints, not how it does it. If it is, which it seemed to when I was playing with it for a few years, then it must be doing something.

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14 Jan 2021 10:27 - 14 Jan 2021 10:33 #357711 by Tarran
Replied by Tarran on topic Chi?

Gisteron wrote:

Tarran wrote:

Gisteron wrote: It's quite alright, I think if there was a practical application of this distinction you knew about, you'd have mentioned it.

Not necessarily, no. I suppose it would depend on your definition of "practical".

It really wouldn't. To recap, Carlos asked about whether there was some gender-like distinction between... for lack of a better word (I am, after all, admittedly uneducated in this subject, so do bear with me, please) "type" of Chi, and you said yes.


Uhm, no, I had said "If you mean, "Is Qi in any way involved in gender politics", no... such things (the politics) are a human construct. But as far as the creationary energy aspects of physical bodies, yes, there is a Yin and a Yang involved." - to put it in other words here (as perhaps I should have spent more time to do back there), that it is not *gender* per se... but that there is a difference between the sexes where there is more Yin than Yang for one, and vice-versa for the other. The difference is dependent on the sex of the individual, not of Jing itself. I also now note my mistake of not specifying the Jing aspect of the whole Qi/Jing concept, often together loosely called "Qi".


Gisteron wrote: Then I asked what "creational/generative energies" are and what that difference between the Yin and Yang varieties was, and clarified that I meant a difference that one can actually point at or observe, since if it is anything at all like the distinction between charges or the directions of a magnetic field, that's what one would come back with. Yet...

Strictly speaking, the science surrounding electromagnetism and the science surrounding Qigong/Jing-Qi-Shen etc., are as "apples and oranges" - perhaps even so far as "bananas and carburators" lol

As it seems, I was mistaken in assuming that a fair comparison between electromagnetism and Chi could be made. So when you said and repeated that they were "kinda like" or "analogous in a way" to each other, what you really meant was that they are "a really poor comparison one might well be better off entirely avoiding".


Mmm, no - I did not "really mean" that. I meant precisely what I'd said. The differences scientifically (trying to pin down charges/charged particles etc.) would be quite wild. The reason is that, if you set up some kind of experiment to measure a charge of electricity along a copper wire, that would be basic and easy enough, and the results would relativley always be the same each time. If you tried to somehow measure Qi/Jing, it would be difficult at best, as #1, the technology to measure such is as yet unavailable, and this is largely due to #2, it's a very subtle and difficult thing to nail down to electrical equipment that would measure such precisely, due to the nature of it being generated by a sentient living thing. All kinds of variables would come into factor - the health of the individual, the emotional state, the time of day for that person, a whole slew of things.

It is good and right to call it a bio-electromagnetic field, because that is what it is. It's not the best of ideas to try to gage such with similar electrical equipment used to gage inorganic fields generated by non-living things. It's just far too subtle a thing, and far too many variables involved to produce any constantly similar results from person to person - indeed, even from the same person between one day and another.


Gisteron wrote:

Tarran wrote: It's all out there, if the desire to research it is truly within you. Again, the above-mentioned text would be an excellent start.

An excellent start would have been to say something like "Creational/generative energies are quantities that describe [insert observable phenomenon here]. The Yin variety makes it so [insert specific observation], while the Yang variety makes it so [insert other specific observation]." Another excellent start would have been to say "Truth be told, I have only heard that there were these two varieties, but I really don't know what the difference is. However, there is a chapter about it in [insert book reference here], perhaps that might be of help to you.". Perhaps this is how you meant it, and in that case fair enough.


I know the difference... I've always found difficulty in finding the right words expressing it. That doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. There've been attempts by me made, further up (and some brilliant attempts made by others), of descriptive terms for each, but such terms are largely subjective. But where any attempts of mine might fail, I offer source material for anyone (who seriously wishes) can look into things further.

On "creational/generative energies", I was trying desperately to come up with a correct descriptive term to mean the energies (*GAWD* I hate that word... but for complete lack of any other, it'll have to do) which are tied to the physical reproductive systems. I probably should have just said that.


Gisteron wrote:

Tarran wrote: As for my "belief", it is not a belief within me, but my experience with facts - here in the far east, such things have been known as actual fact for over five thousand years.

Perhaps they have been. And yet, when I ask what the fact even is (or what fact there even is, for that matter), I am directed to ask someone else, someone, I presume, who is either in possession of such knowledge, or merely more willing to share it, be that out of a sense of charity or moral duty, than the one directly asked.


It's because I'm not as well suited to answer such as expertly as others. There are those *way* better than my lowly self at it. I only spoke in such things here as it was a thread on this topic. Others added input, so I added what little I could as well. I saw this as a thread where those of us interested could pool knowledge, however great or small, and even find/add external resources, so that is what I'm doing here. If someone wants to come along and claim "BS", and demand a lab generated answer, and if I can't speak "textbook" from my own mouth, then that someone claims "BS" all the more, then that's fine... and it is also not my problem. I'm not here for that.

This week has been horrific. Too much time at work, not enough sleep, and I had to redo a couple huge chunks of my IP. I'm not as sleep-deprived now. When I initially saw the question of whether I was saying Qi is gender specific, I was horrified. I'd thought I'd opened up a huge can of worms that would explode in a huge mess of politically *very-very wrong* things that are not so to begin with, but... I was just... frozen. I couldn't just *ignore* it. I needed to make some sense of it in as simple a way as possible, and hope it was enough. I told no lies, and I did not make anything up... though I did grasp for something to call what I had in my head, so I'd coined that "terminology", but not the concept. Bad choice of words, I suppose.

Whatever. In searching for my oath post (they tell me it's *somewhere*), I stumbled on this old thread, and "walked down memory lane" a bit in it... then I realized a wildly irresponsible omission of data, and quickly added it. That's all I really wanted to do.

One does not have to be well-versed in electromagnetic theory to know what an electromagnet is, and so, since those who taught me showed me how this is a bio-electromagnetic field thing, I understood it as such. But I cannot express the aspects of Qi/Jing with the words of a degree-holding scientist/professor of magnetic theory or whatever. Funny enough, I've been taught that Qi/Jing cannot be charted/gaged with conventional tools such as are used for electromagnetism (for reasons stated above, and otherwise), and that even if one can create enough "spark" with their Qi/Jing to light a small LED, "it isn't electricity, it's Qi/Jing".

This isn't pseudoscience.

Do I think we can use this in order to be like peeps in DragonBall-Z or something? Oh, HELL no (LOL!!).

What do *I* use it for? Just maintaining balance in health, really.

Have I "seen some shizz"? Oh, HELL yes.

Am I gonna talk about it? Hahahahaha nope. I mean, really... why - right? ;)

Again, not a pseudoscience. I am not making things up. I am not someone who does not know what he's talking about (just might need help with the correct wording lol).

And I still need much, MUCH more sleep.

May the Force be with us all <3

Apprentice to J. K. Barger
Last edit: 14 Jan 2021 10:33 by Tarran.
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14 Jan 2021 13:01 - 14 Jan 2021 13:12 #357715 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Chi?
Can Chi be PERSON SPACIFIC? Does it have to follow all the rules and by laws and books we have read about and evey testimony ever heard - is there that actual "human potential" in chi? That Ebb and Flow as well? When we identify it, like everything, doesn't that limit it?

Edit addition forgot lol

* in real life we know the energy in us to be many things. In real life it can come from trees bugs and animals and people. Thats a huge mix of things when ya think about it. Chi from the Mantis... the Bird, the BEAR the sun- the trees. I could go on all day but when we actually sit and think a bit- we know the answers most times before we ask the questions.


For me- Chi falls in that "Living Force" section of things... most things do. Most things are connected in a way ill never understand but gladly claim.

Very PEROSON SPACIFIC. Like the Force- it depends on the OBSERVER most time. Thats all

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Last edit: 14 Jan 2021 13:12 by Carlos.Martinez3.

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14 Jan 2021 21:13 - 14 Jan 2021 21:16 #357724 by Tarran
Replied by Tarran on topic Chi?

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Can Chi be PERSON SPACIFIC? Does it have to follow all the rules and by laws and books we have read about and evey testimony ever heard - is there that actual "human potential" in chi? That Ebb and Flow as well? When we identify it, like everything, doesn't that limit it?

Edit addition forgot lol

* in real life we know the energy in us to be many things. In real life it can come from trees bugs and animals and people. Thats a huge mix of things when ya think about it. Chi from the Mantis... the Bird, the BEAR the sun- the trees. I could go on all day but when we actually sit and think a bit- we know the answers most times before we ask the questions.


For me- Chi falls in that "Living Force" section of things... most things do. Most things are connected in a way ill never understand but gladly claim.

Very PEROSON SPACIFIC. Like the Force- it depends on the OBSERVER most time. Thats all


Qi, as in the field, not so much, no. Jing however, yes. Remember, Qi/Jing is very often together refered to under the umbrella term "Qi", but the two aspects are different. Qi is merely the template of paths, along which Jing, the energy at work, flows.

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Last edit: 14 Jan 2021 21:16 by Tarran.

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15 Jan 2021 10:43 #357746 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Chi?

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Most things are connected in a way ill never understand but gladly claim.

Is it not dishonest to claim things one doesn't at least think one knows or understands to some notable extent? If it is not, how is it not, and what would be? And if it is, why would one allow onerself to do this, even taking pride in and celebrating a forfeiting of knowledge in favour of ignorance, and an impulsive conclusion without patient investigation? How would one go about reconciling such habits with the Jedi Code?

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15 Jan 2021 13:03 #357747 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Chi?

Gisteron wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Most things are connected in a way ill never understand but gladly claim.

Is it not dishonest to claim things one doesn't at least think one knows or understands to some notable extent? If it is not, how is it not, and what would be? And if it is, why would one allow onerself to do this, even taking pride in and celebrating a forfeiting of knowledge in favour of ignorance, and an impulsive conclusion without patient investigation? How would one go about reconciling such habits with the Jedi Code?





Theses are great reflective questions.
I think every one should and CAN be able to answer questions for ones self like this.

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