Chapter Two

i really didn't understand the Ball Metaphor but i did understand the Basic Concept of balance that was throughout the reading. Newton had it right in physics that for every action there is an equal and opposit reaction. such is so with life \"no on without off\" and no Light without dark...therefore should we not embrace those that choose to follow the dark side as we would ourselves for they bring balance to The Force as much as we do...

I have read half of this so far and must get to my day but wanted to make a statement, the ball metaphor was of Demenions. That we can't see or experience anything in truth, without something to compare it to. The balls can not roll in any direction because they will not know if they are rolling or if they are in one spot. Add a fourth ball and instead of being 2 demensional you have 3 demensions. Length, width, height, and depth. But there is still no possible way to determine which ball/s is moving. Or for that matter if space itself is moving. Like on a piece of paper, if you put a small ball on it and move the paper around. You may know that the ball is not the one moving but take away that fact that you know this, forget that information and for all you know the ball itself could be moving. I think he is trying to explain the uncertainties in life.

For more info on demensions i have a very interesting video for everyone.
http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php

Where can I find the link to the chapter 2 reading ?

Yes, I myself would like to have the link to Chapter 2

Br. Shaun FDC wrote:

Yes, I myself would like to have the link to Chapter 2

Everyone...These discussions were really meant to take place in thier respective discussion areas...not seperate areas. The link is
http://templeofthejediorder.org/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=39&func=view&id=2586&catid=31

and this is where the chapter two discussion was originally posted. You will find these for all the chapters )and thier links are there too.

I appologise for this, i hadn't realized. i will finish reading and post my thoughts on it there.

There is not a whole lot to be said about this chapter that already wasn't said really well in the chapter itself. A lot of things that I agree with, but for sake of making a post that is not simply \"I agree\" I think I will elaborate my opinion on some the stuff said.

Light and dark, both in the classical sense and in a view of the force, is of the same thing. We are talking about the same thin when we say light/dark whether that be a light wave or the the force. Light and dark are our perceptions or usage of a whole.



A simple wave pattern, there is a crest and a trough, if it was a light wave it would be light and dark (rather simplified granted). But all in all the crest and the trough are still, as a whole, the wave. IMO so it is the same with the force.

As for the space/body correlation space is an important part of the human perception as a hunter/gatherer species and the location of objects in this space is how we define it. But I would ask, if you were in an area that lacked any bodies, would space still exist though it does not for you? Just because we lack the perception of something does that mean it ceases to exist?

One small thing that I do disagree with is the couple of sentences that deal with the qualities of animals and what is \"natural\". I agree that humans should not use animals as a model for what is \"natural\". Just because male rabbits will fornicate with every female rabbit in the vicinity does not mean that a person should sleep with countless people. In the rabbits case this leads to babies and a fulfillment of a genetic disposition, the continuation of the species. In people this can lead to unwanted pregnancies, various unpleasant diseases and the degradation of ones own worth as a person. But all that said that does not mean that we can, to quote the section I am referring to \"We must, however, be careful of taking animals as models of \"perfectly natural\" behavior. If \"natural\" means \"good\" or \"wise,\" human beings can improve on animals, though they do not always do so.\" improve on animals. What is natural for animals is not natural for humans and vice versa. Even though we are part of the animal kingdom does not mean that we are the same as other species. There is no need to improve on animal nature but there is a need to improve on human nature.

I have read that chapter many times and somehow I always waited for the great \"AHA\" moment (I felt as if I somehow don't get what he says, waiting for something deeper to emerge). He seems to be going on about the \"every coin has two sides\" thing. Which I understand (and have understood for some time, I mean, can we really live in this world and not realize that every action, every thing has positive and negative attributes?).

I do like the stand Mandoade takes re: nature. I am completely with that opinion.

That's all, sorry.

We are all the same being, black and white, up and down, on and off, crests and troughs, matter and space. There is no difference from us and that head-tailed cat on the other side of the fense. But as the cats tail is not the effect of it’s head, so to am I not an effect of the world. Perhaps the world exists because I exist, or anyone else for that matter. In the end there is little or no difference between who one person is to the next. That sounds boring but appearances are different and personalities, or ego, are different which makes life and existence, or perhaps existing non-existance more interesting.
We make non-existance, or the ever prevailing death knocking at our door, ever present in our lives. If someone gets hurt we think the worst. Death must loose to many here in the West, but if the trough were removed then what kind of life would a never ending crest be? Although we do not want pain it happens unless you train yourself differently. Nothing is certain in life or death, but there must always be crests and troughs.
The present holds for us a cage that we have allowed ourselves to be placed within. There is no place that we can go without someone asking where, or why. And worse of all if you don’t have an answer, if you are just wondering then you are weird, strange, or suspicious. I often find myself doing things and going places without a reason and I have been labeled weird. I am one of the lucky ones who has a kind face and will rarely be classified as suspicious. But even when walking down the street to go to the store, people stare, as if to say ‘why don’t you take the bus,’ or ‘where is your car?’
Well in the world things are continuing to change true, and there is the always ever present aspect of things remaining the same. Familiarity if often something people depend on. Perhaps it is in our genes to continue to do some things the same as they have been done in the past. We look at people in the past and want to go down their roads not realizing that those very roads will enevitably lead us in yet another great circle of what might be horror and grief.
White should win as many would like it to and black should loose. But it isn’t that way, white wins most of the small games, the side ones that don’t always count for much, white wins in life. Black wins in death, and some of the other games. If you want to look at it though, white started it, white is birth, right? So it is natural that its opposite finishes it.
But in the end neither is better. They simply are, just as I am, or at least I think I am, lol.

A lot of interesting concepts in this chapter. In particular the part about the ball in space is somewhat vague which works in it's advantage. How can you tell if the ball is moving without another ball to compare it to? This applies to all things in life, how can you tell how far you have gotten in life if you can't look at where you started? How can you judge what is good without knowing what evil is? how bright is a light without a shadow to compare to?

Lucky for us all we are each a very unique ball that we can judge each other against, because without a each other we are both complete light and dark, good and evil, a saint and a butcher.

The only question left in that regard is, Where is the spiritual ball to judge ourselves from?

Cat through a fence. It is true that people tend to view things narrowly as cause and effect without seeing the big picture, but it also true that cause and effect is an easy way of understanding most situations. To see the bigger picture of things it would require a large selection of information to avoid assumptions that may be incorrect.

The major problem that people have with death is that they can only imagine two points, the internal self and the physical world, the spiritual concept does not come into play for most. For thousands of years people have had to ask what happens when they die, what happens to their internal self. They fear loosing both the internal and the physical so the idea that the physical body is shed and the internal self stays became popular. This helped ease some people's suffering until the idea of alternative destinations came into being with most modern religions, heaven and hell. The Greeks believed that every mortal person that died went to Hades so there wasn't much to worry about, Hades is both light and dark. Now people worry themselves with the idea of where their internal self will go.

Two spheres Internal Physical, you can only have a narrow linear view.

Perhaps we should start adding new spheres and see where that gets us. I will propose a Spiritual sphere, one that connects both the physical and internal self in such a way that they create a whole. It would seem from my perspective that all of life can be represented by a triangle.

Neither light nor dark should win. If all things are light then things become simple and less interesting. Anyone who has worked in 3d programs understand what an object looks like when it is lit equally from all sides, it looses its beauty. Are whole life we have avoided the dark as we cannot see well in it which has caused it to be seen as a negative. Bright, pure light makes things easy to see but also takes away the details as it kills all the shadows.

So in summary Light and Dark is not a good way to judge thing as its linear, requires a third \"gray\" point to clarify things.