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18 May 2017 16:41 #284512 by Calan
The second law of Thermodynamics states that the cosmos and all things in it are moving toward increased disorder. Increased chaos is a fundamental nature of things. How do we, as Jedi, reconsile this fact with our code of balance and order if these things are counter to the nature of the Force, or cosmos?
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18 May 2017 16:48 - 18 May 2017 16:49 #284513 by Arisaig
Chaos, yet Harmony.

The reason why I adhere to this version of the code is because it admits there is the first part (Chaos), but there is also the second part (Harmony). Disorder, as you have worded it, I would describe as Chaos.

So, there is Chaos, but there is also Harmony.

Yes, things move towards disorder. That is nature. It is, then, the Jedi that seek harmony amidst the Chaos of the world/universe/mulitverse/ect.

That's just how I view it, at least. :p
Last Edit: 18 May 2017 16:49 by Arisaig. Reason: This was not the post you were looking for. You don't need a reason. *waves hands jazz hands style*
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18 May 2017 17:19 #284515 by Amyntas
Ah Ari beat me to it :laugh:

I see great harmony in chaos really , like you move to the eye of the storm , when you place yourself in that eye you notice it can go really still , and that is where you find Harmony ;)
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18 May 2017 17:21 #284516 by Kobos
This law can also, be looked at as this. (I saw this on a BBC show about physics and natural wonders but the name escapes me right now). Though the law state that things move towards disorder one must remember that order is in fact still a probability of disorder, even if it is minimal. The very probability of a singularity expanding into a infinity growing explosion is minimal or the fact that a singularity could in fact form at all from what is currently expanding. Science is awesome but always leads to more inquiry.....no scientific answer has been an absolute.
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18 May 2017 17:33 - 18 May 2017 17:35 #284519 by OB1Shinobi
the universe might be moving towards disorder but each of us as individuals can clean and order our own bedrooms..

since we are part of the universe and humans have a natural proclivity to bring order to the chaos of the universe, couldnt it be said that the universe also creates order out of chaos?
Last Edit: 18 May 2017 17:35 by OB1Shinobi.
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18 May 2017 18:22 #284524 by Connor L.
To me, there are different levels of chaos. As with many things, chaos can be described from multiple perspectives. On a cosmic level, I tend to agree with the learnèd people who say that entropy is the natural order. But, this doesn't mean much to me. I am not a man who ponders things on a cosmic level. I may do it for fun. Like, if I'm out with friends and we're discussing the "big questions". I won't worry about it so much on my own. Instead, I tend to focus on how I can directly impact those around me. Like Obi said above, we can all move towards taking care of our own bedrooms.

The moment we begin to be dictatorial about others' bedrooms is when we stop being compassionate humans and start being vigilantes and dictators. In a way, this is why I am so drawn to Jediism: we do not enforce beliefs but rather allow each person to explore what the Doctrine and their Beliefs mean to them.

Back to the topic at hand, your question seems to be based in theory on the surface level. But, I think it does go deeper than that. My first question to you is... where, in the Jedi code, is there balance? I do not see the opposite sides of the code as true opposing forces. Is ignorance truly the opposition to knowledge? Ignorance could be an attitude. Knowledge could be facts. They are not necessarily antonyms. Is death not a part of the Force too? Is peace always emotionless? I'm not sure I buy that chaos could not apply to the code.

I do not feel qualified to address Chaos; yet Harmony because I am not sure I buy that line of the code. It isn't in the original (which I believe to be based on the Heart Sutra), and it doesn't make much sense in terms of accurately describing the universe. It could also be covered by a combination of Emotion; yet Peace and Passion; yet Serenity.
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18 May 2017 19:04 #284527 by Solice
In my opinion the Force is nature. Our observance and understanding of the Force can be grown through our objective knowledge and understanding of nature. If entropy goes to its conclusion and the universe experiences heat death, it is what it is. If there is some way to prevent that, or if another option happens (i.e. the big snap) so is the nature of the Force. On the bright side none of those things will happen for a very long time.

“Where we thought to be alone, we would be with all the world”
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18 May 2017 20:13 #284531 by Magnus Staar
Two quotes to add food for thought:

"In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order"
- Carl Jung


"What we imagine is order is merely the prevailing form of chaos."
- Kerry Thornley
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18 May 2017 21:15 #284537 by Calan
Certainly when all is said and done, the truth will always just be the truth. No matter what we name it, how we describe or define it, we can phylosophize for the next 1000 years and the truth will always just remain what its always been and we will never change its nature.
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18 May 2017 21:19 - 18 May 2017 21:24 #284538 by JamesSand

the universe might be moving towards disorder but each of us as individuals can clean and order our own bedrooms..


That's what you think!

Whenever I am invited over for a BBQ - I make it my business to mess up the cutlery drawer.

Foolish mortals, think you can control the world by segregating your tea spoons? Ha-HAHH!

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]



Whenever we discuss Chaos and universes, I end up (invariably :side: ) with Douglas Adams

Tsst.

I'll give the point to Marta I think - Exist at the eye of the storm. Imagine driving a car - You sit, still, calm - fuel is exploding, rods are spinning, valves are flapping, the road races by, tiny rollers in the bearings are spinning wildly, etc etc.

You are in a tonne of steel and plastic pulsing with mechanical, electrical, chemical and fluid energy. Barely contained and all perfectly capable of tearing itself (and your feeble meatsack body) to pieces - but it doesn't. It all works in a harmony...


And, when it *does* come apart - the iron in the car (and your blood) will turn brown, and become a part of the earth, which will eventually be sucked into the sun...



That's not really where I was going with the metaphor, but I got caught up in the thrill of mangled vehicles and dismembered drivers....



Edit: To be completely honest, I'm really struggling to mesh the laws of thermodynamics and basic engineering systems analysis with a philosophical religion....
Last Edit: 18 May 2017 21:24 by JamesSand.
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