Lessons of the Cave

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08 Mar 2016 14:29 #232352 by
Lessons of the Cave was created by
I've recently been in contact with Relan, and he and I have reached some understanding.  I know his last message to everyone (through me) was not well received, so I was asked to take his recent message and edit it, putting it in my own words.

I realize this is not a message most people want to hear, and so I am not pressing it.  Take it or leave it.  Agree or disagree.  You are free to do, or not do, whatever you wish with it.

Warning: Spoiler!

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08 Mar 2016 15:50 #232377 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Lessons of the Cave
why doesnt he come speak for himself, and why do you keep playing along with this silliness?

People are complicated.

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08 Mar 2016 16:04 #232382 by
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I'm a little confused about the message. I'm not really sure what you and he are trying to say. For all that I did not enjoy the last message, I at least feel it was clear.

Am I the only one that doesn't get it?

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08 Mar 2016 17:17 #232406 by
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IMHO I think it would be best if Relan speak for himself. The only thing I don't understand is why he doesn't?

Am I missing something?

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08 Mar 2016 19:42 #232430 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic Lessons of the Cave

Being a Jedi is not about the label, it is about the relationship, being one with the Force and knowing its will.

That would depend on ones understanding of Jediism I think.

Humility is the key, to eliminate the "I" as much as possible. One's reputation is not important, not relevant. Sometimes it is even necessary to return to one's original name, to forget the Jedi-related alias. Find the meaning of your real name. You may find it is more true to who you are than the one you chose when you came here.

The first sentence... true… as for the rest, I don’t know.

Being gentle with those who we know are on the dark path will not turn them away from the shadows. We must be firm. The caterpillar must break it's own sack, or die.

Often times our gentleness is mistaken for weakness. This would not be a wise course for anyone. The caterpillar must break free of its cocoon as a chick or an alligator must free itself from its egg. But it is not firmness or strength that accomplishes the task but rather persistence. ;)

Impartation is a very serious, dangerous thing.

I have yet to be convinced it is impartation of a symbol so much as it is the belief in the symbol that has the ability to cause strong responses.

Sidious understood that looking at both aspects for knowledge would bring darkness and confusion. Plagueis knew balance would bring death and confusion. Irvine understood that duel knowledge leads to a uncontrollable hatred and war in the inner self. Shinobi, the ways of energy ball power. Yet these are the very things that are being taught.
All things without balance or discipline can cause emotional strife. I do not believe this interpretation of causality is correct.

A Jedi doesn't attack, they defend. They use the powers made by the Counts of this world and allow their evil to manifest on themselves. The katana is put away, only unleashed when evil casts the shadow. Take off the Sabres from your belts, put away the kiber crystals. Place them back in the chest. Live a serving life by being an example in your place. Eat healthy, take away the profane things. When a friend falls, they all rush to lift up. This is the path you should seek..

I do not believe this applies to TotJO.

Put away the fancy robes and put on the simple garments. Spend time praying about your life and clean it. Spend time with the community within. When righted, that body will be manifested to the outside world.

Good message, but prayer is not the term I would have chosen; meditate. :)

Monastic Order of Knights

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08 Mar 2016 20:26 #232437 by
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Often times our gentleness is mistaken for weakness.


This is a mistake often made :) thank you Wes for what i was trying to put into words and could not find them ..

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08 Mar 2016 20:56 - 08 Mar 2016 20:56 #232452 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Lessons of the Cave

I realize this is not a message most people want to hear, and so I am not pressing it. Take it or leave it. Agree or disagree. You are free to do, or not do, whatever you wish with it.


As far as I can see this message should have been a journal post, since it's original author apparently is not interested in coming here to discuss it.

I cannot see it's relevance to us.. so I'll be leaving it.

"Evil is always possible. And goodness is eternally difficult."
Last edit: 08 Mar 2016 20:56 by Edan.
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08 Mar 2016 22:06 #232481 by
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Interesting.

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08 Mar 2016 23:03 - 08 Mar 2016 23:26 #232495 by
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Goken wrote: I'm a little confused about the message. I'm not really sure what you and he are trying to say. For all that I did not enjoy the last message, I at least feel it was clear.

Am I the only one that doesn't get it?


You aren't the only one. It feels like it's been fed through too many translators or something.

I'm filing this as TMS: Too Much Sugar ;)
Last edit: 08 Mar 2016 23:26 by .

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09 Mar 2016 12:18 #232563 by
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The whole things seems, to me, like a ramble aimed at Jedi who are pure role players or attack other and things of that nature. As people like dean said, it doesn't seem to apply to us. I think it is best to just leave it be, and hope that the writer of these such things come and speak to us himself. Whether this be a journal post, a chat room discussion, or a forum. This whole using a messenger thing just isn't really working well for either side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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09 Mar 2016 13:05 #232567 by
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Relan isn't a Role Player....As is evident in his message.

But I do have to Agree Streen. Relan needs to stop living in the past and choose his side. He can't continue to play the middle game between his choice and his dream. If he wants to continue "Helping" the community like he once did. He needs to step up and properly JOIN The community. Not sit back, point fingers, and tell us that we are wrong when he hasn't even tried to see how things have changed from what he remembers.

He has alot of hate and bitterness. I understand alot of it....But if he is going to preach Jedi...he needs to be a Jedi. Which currently he isn't by his own choice and admission. He is Christian.

I love Relan. We were friends at JEDI and I support him whole heartedly. I value the history he provides and continues to provide. But....he needs to be reminded what being part of a community is. And you Streen are the only one who can guide him.

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10 Mar 2016 09:06 #232735 by
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He has alot of hate and bitterness. I understand alot of it....But if he is going to preach Jedi...he needs to be a Jedi. Which currently he isn't by his own choice and admission. He is Christian.


Owkeeh and none of these choices justify holding on to hate and bitterness, both of the Jedi and Christian doctrine actually demand that you forgive ? And i dont see the problem really there is nothing in the Jedi teachings that contradicts Yeshua Ha Mashiach teachings IMHO

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10 Mar 2016 14:14 #232773 by
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Interesting variety of responses :)

I realize that it is hard to understand what he wants to say. For most, the context is missing. Trisskar knows what Relan went through. He had been shunned and largely unappreciated. The chances of him returning to the Jedi community are nil, as a result, despite all he accomplished.

As for living in the past, that is not the case. In my conversations with him, I've learned he largely wants to move toward the future, to abandon the Jedi "cult", as he put it. He doesn't want things to go back to the way they were, of that I can assure you.

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10 Mar 2016 14:24 #232776 by
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Relan is stuck in his head. And, in the past.

Tell him to move on and perhaps he'll fill in the gaps.

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10 Mar 2016 14:44 #232781 by
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Streen wrote: The chances of him returning to the Jedi community are nil, as a result, despite all he accomplished.


Then he should prolly stop telling us what to do.

Yes. I totally do get what he went through. I went through alot to. We all have....It's not an excuse to point fingers and send out messengers.

Focus on the history with me....That will give the community far far more than these messages ever will.

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10 Mar 2016 17:31 #232818 by
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Trisskar wrote:

Streen wrote: The chances of him returning to the Jedi community are nil, as a result, despite all he accomplished.


Then he should prolly stop telling us what to do.


This.

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10 Mar 2016 17:32 #232819 by
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More and more people are not even recognizing the name, and really, he is only an anecdote to other peoples history now.

I know, I know, waaay back when he was a real big deal....

For most, the context is missing. Trisskar knows what Relan went through. He had been shunned and largely unappreciated. The chances of him returning to the Jedi community are nil, as a result, despite all he accomplished.


Yes, the context is missing, and thats largely the point, but also, the context to most now, is irrelevant. Its the past, a past for some that never even existed and only has the weight of...gossip, at this point.

Despite all hes accomplished...Again, the past.

What has he done lately?

Complain.

Which seems to be a running gag with many older Jedi.

Cowards send messengers.

A Jedi, past, present, or future, should have the balls to speak for him, or herself.

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10 Mar 2016 17:44 - 10 Mar 2016 17:45 #232822 by Edan
Replied by Edan on topic Re:RE: Lessons of the Cave

Streen wrote: Interesting variety of responses :)

I realize that it is hard to understand what he wants to say. For most, the context is missing. Trisskar knows what Relan went through. He had been shunned and largely unappreciated. The chances of him returning to the Jedi community are nil, as a result, despite all he accomplished.

As for living in the past, that is not the case. In my conversations with him, I've learned he largely wants to move toward the future, to abandon the Jedi "cult", as he put it. He doesn't want things to go back to the way they were, of that I can assure you.


I do not know who Relan is, he may have contributed much to the community once... But still, I don't know him and therefore have no reason to accept his criticism. If he is not interested in being part of the community then I don't understand why he feels he has the right to criticise it. Why should any other person who knows him not, accept it?

He can come 'here' and help us, be part of the community, or perhaps he should consider that he might have an attachment issue.

Either way, these messages are irrelevant, and putting your name to them also Streen doesn't change that... We know that really this is his complaint.. So see my above comment.

"Evil is always possible. And goodness is eternally difficult."
Last edit: 10 Mar 2016 17:45 by Edan.
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10 Mar 2016 21:09 - 10 Mar 2016 21:09 #232861 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Lessons of the Cave

Streen wrote: Interesting variety of responses :)

I realize that it is hard to understand what he wants to say. For most, the context is missing. Trisskar knows what Relan went through. He had been shunned and largely unappreciated. The chances of him returning to the Jedi community are nil, as a result, despite all he accomplished.

As for living in the past, that is not the case. In my conversations with him, I've learned he largely wants to move toward the future, to abandon the Jedi "cult", as he put it. He doesn't want things to go back to the way they were, of that I can assure you.


Was he ever a member here at TOTJO? Search didn't find a user by that name.

Introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist.
Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 10 Mar 2016 21:09 by Adder.

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