There is no truth...

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26 Jun 2013 17:13 #110856 by Adhara
Replied by Adhara on topic There is no truth...
"If you are seeking an absolute truth you will not find it. Only truth that applies to you." -Oma Desala, Stargate SG1

That's the best think I can add to this :)

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  • Rickie The Grey
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26 Jun 2013 17:40 #110862 by Rickie The Grey
Replied by Rickie The Grey on topic There is no truth...

Adhara wrote: "If you are seeking an absolute truth you will not find it. Only truth that applies to you." -Oma Desala, Stargate SG1

That's the best think I can add to this :)


Bingo!

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27 Jun 2013 10:27 #110898 by Vergere82
Replied by Vergere82 on topic There is no truth...

Streen wrote:

Proteus wrote: This is a paradoxical statement.

"There is no truth"
If that is the truth, then it falsifies itself.
If that is not the truth, then itself is falsified.



I was thinking the same thing. It's like saying "everything I tell you is a lie".


Hmm always open to the possibility/probability of being wrong but I don't think "everything I tell you is a lie is really a paradox. the first statement "There is no truth" like Proteus say's contradicts itself, the latter well...
To me I really agree (yes I'm biased Streen) that "everything I tell you is a lie". you can never really experience or absorb the whole "truth" of what I try and convey to you, I have my perceptions and my preconceptions which shape my experience of a person, thing or event. No matter how verbosely I describe an experience, or how open to my experience you are you will never have that exact experience. We might align to the point that as we try and convey a thought or experience we even describe it to people in the exact same words but your experience remains yours and mine remains mine, the best we can do is try and share those thoughts or experiences and hope that others can gain the same enjoyment, benefit or knowledge imparted by them. To me that doesn't make a contradiction.

Then again dude "everything I tell you is a lie"

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27 Jun 2013 11:52 #110902 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic There is no truth...

Vergere82 wrote:

Streen wrote:

Proteus wrote: This is a paradoxical statement.

"There is no truth"
If that is the truth, then it falsifies itself.
If that is not the truth, then itself is falsified.



I was thinking the same thing. It's like saying "everything I tell you is a lie".


Hmm always open to the possibility/probability of being wrong but I don't think "everything I tell you is a lie is really a paradox. the first statement "There is no truth" like Proteus say's contradicts itself, the latter well...
To me I really agree (yes I'm biased Streen) that "everything I tell you is a lie". you can never really experience or absorb the whole "truth" of what I try and convey to you, I have my perceptions and my preconceptions which shape my experience of a person, thing or event. No matter how verbosely I describe an experience, or how open to my experience you are you will never have that exact experience. We might align to the point that as we try and convey a thought or experience we even describe it to people in the exact same words but your experience remains yours and mine remains mine, the best we can do is try and share those thoughts or experiences and hope that others can gain the same enjoyment, benefit or knowledge imparted by them. To me that doesn't make a contradiction.

Then again dude "everything I tell you is a lie"


The paradox is in the single statement...

If "everything I tell you is a lie", then the fact I say this to you, is also a lie, therefore I am telling the truth, which I cannot, because "Everything I tell you is a lie"...

I quite agree with the rest of your statement, but, this is the flip side of "There is not truth"...

:)

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
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27 Jun 2013 14:46 - 27 Jun 2013 15:28 #110913 by Rickie The Grey
Replied by Rickie The Grey on topic There is no truth...

Alexandre Orion wrote: -- I'll let you find those flaws. ;)


The flaws I find are with me.

I have strong convictions (values) of what I believe is right/wrong, true/not true. Truth in my life is the cement that binds my morality. Saying (my) truth is really my perception forces me to think the perception of others (cultures and societies) are just as validly true as mine. There is the rub.

My truths can be in direct conflict with what others hold true due to their perceptions. For example: slavery, equality of the sexes, prearranged pre-teen marrage, dictators, kings, child labor, abortion, capital punishment, cast system. Just look around the world. It's easy to see cultures and practices baised on perceived truths that I abhor.

If I open my mind and reflect on things from anothers perception I can understand whay their world is the way it is and why they do what they do. So am I wrong? I can envision myself in the roll of the very things I am disgusted by. That's scary. Who is really right or wrong.

Maybe I should be a slaver or a dictator? There is good money in it. The strong always prey on the weak So why not? It is the way of things.

Now I'm not going off the deep end and changing my career. I'll still do what I think is true to my nature. I am flawed. I can live with that. I don't know all the answers. I've been living with that as well and seem to get by. I think too much, for all the good that will do me, but it keeps me entertained. :)
Last edit: 27 Jun 2013 15:28 by Rickie The Grey.

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27 Jun 2013 17:38 - 27 Jun 2013 17:39 #110938 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic There is no truth...

Rickie The Grey wrote:

Alexandre Orion wrote: -- I'll let you find those flaws. ;)


The flaws I find are with me.


Are you saying the only flaws you find are within yourself?

I have strong convictions (values) of what I believe is right/wrong, true/not true. Truth in my life is the cement that binds my morality. Saying (my) truth is really my perception forces me to think the perception of others (cultures and societies) are just as validly true as mine. There is the rub.

My truths can be in direct conflict with what others hold true due to their perceptions. For example: slavery, equality of the sexes, prearranged pre-teen marrage, dictators, kings, child labor, abortion, capital punishment, cast system. Just look around the world. It's easy to see cultures and practices baised on perceived truths that I abhor.

If I open my mind and reflect on things from anothers perception I can understand whay their world is the way it is and why they do what they do. So am I wrong? I can envision myself in the roll of the very things I am disgusted by. That's scary. Who is really right or wrong.


There is no 'right and wrong'.. lol...

I think you identify with these things you abhor, and not with 'you'...

You are not these things, so why do you let them get to you? Can you do anything about them? Then do it...

No? Then why worry about it?

Maybe I should be a slaver or a dictator? There is good money in it. The strong always prey on the weak So why not? It is the way of things.


Lets see, constant care of the slaves would become a priority...

Feeding, medical, scraps for cloth... The time for these things, and money does not grow on trees...

Who is the 'slave', those in captivity by another, or he in self captivity to his charges?



Now I'm not going off the deep end and changing my career. I'll still do what I think is true to my nature. I am flawed. I can live with that. I don't know all the answers. I've been living with that as well and seem to get by. I think too much, for all the good that will do me, but it keeps me entertained. :)


You are not flawed!

You are the best 'Rickie the Grey' EVAR!! :P

Be all YOU can be!! :woohoo:

You'll never be as great a Jestor as I can be, for I am the best me I can be... And, when I find a flaw with myself, I deal with it...;)

Im always improving... :whistle:

I dont improve by the definitions of others, only by my own definition... :whistle: :evil:
:whistle:

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
Last edit: 27 Jun 2013 17:39 by Jestor.
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27 Jun 2013 17:45 #110941 by Alexandre Orion
And what Jestor has written above is one of the best testimonies of Te (virtue) I've seen in a while.

:cheer:

Be a philosopher ; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man.
~ David Hume

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
~ Henri Bergson
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27 Jun 2013 18:08 #110944 by Rickie The Grey
Replied by Rickie The Grey on topic There is no truth...
I'm not beating myself up because I can understand anothers point of view, how their values evolved or why it works for them and do what they do. I am saying ones mans truths is anothers mans faults. You know the saying of walking in another mans shoes.

Never used the word only. ;)

I do look into myself, as best as I can, and find some thoughts uncomfortable. That's the nature of reflection. When you try to be open minded lots of stuff can blow in. :woohoo: :silly:

I have a strong constitution. No worries nor concerns. I simple posted my thoughts from reflecting on the subject. I am flawed, I'm human. I accept that. We are all good. :)

Actually I like dictator best. :laugh: :cheer: :P

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28 Jun 2013 01:04 #110999 by MurMur
Replied by MurMur on topic There is no truth...
There is no truth is almost like saying there is no spoon. The truth is based on one's point of view of the situation. However, a former Master of mine said that there are three sides to every story: your side, their side, and what really happened. Truth or facts are based on a collective bond of those who have the same or close to the same point of view with that subject.

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28 Jun 2013 12:59 #111026 by Streen
Replied by Streen on topic There is no truth...

Vergere82 wrote: To me I really agree (yes I'm biased Streen) that "everything I tell you is a lie". you can never really experience or absorb the whole "truth" of what I try and convey to you, I have my perceptions and my preconceptions which shape my experience of a person, thing or event. No matter how verbosely I describe an experience, or how open to my experience you are you will never have that exact experience. We might align to the point that as we try and convey a thought or experience we even describe it to people in the exact same words but your experience remains yours and mine remains mine, the best we can do is try and share those thoughts or experiences and hope that others can gain the same enjoyment, benefit or knowledge imparted by them. To me that doesn't make a contradiction.

Then again dude "everything I tell you is a lie"



Ah, a Traitor fan ;) Indeed, everything everyone says is a lie because the truth is always greater than the words we use to describe it.

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