Native American Jedi? Part 4 - Gross National….Peace?

JLSpinner wrote: I suppose you could claim both, but generally speaking the two aren't created in the same way. Pleasure being caused by external stimuli and being of a temporary and superficial nature. Joy is an internal state. Pleasure usually leads to desire which is not cohesive with joy. But perhaps you have a different experience.

No I think I have the exact same experience as every one else. In our competitive reality the win creates pleasure, which in turn leads to the desire to do that again. But the elevated position that win results in, after the fact, can create joy, the continued internal state of being.

Nobodies experience is the exact same.

I apologize if you are offended. I just don't understand how the want of gain and victory brings joy. Once again, limited to my perspective. Joy to me is usually found when I lose my sense of self. When the experience has my full focus and no thoughts exist. During this time I cannot desire or seek. I can only experience. If my thoughts are on my future path I am forgoing my opportunities of joy to seek comfort. At least, those are my experiences.

JLSpinner wrote: Nobodies experience is the exact same.

I apologize if you are offended...

What are you talking about? How did you come to the idea that I was offended? I was simply disusing a subject from an opposed point of view?

Wasn't sure on your tone. Didn't want to upset you.

JLSpinner wrote: I just don't understand how the want of gain and victory brings joy. Once again, limited to my perspective. Joy to me is usually found when I lose my sense of self. When the experience has my full focus and no thoughts exist. During this time I cannot desire or seek. I can only experience. If my thoughts are on my future path I am forgoing my opportunities of joy to seek comfort. At least, those are my experiences.

Yes but that is an unsustainable state in and of itself. What was it that allowed you the luxury of that state vs being in survival mode where you have to search for food shelter and the like? It was being successful at competition which provided your basal needs that in turn allowed that down time in which you could enact that joyful state of losing your sense of self.

Its a balance of the two. We gain through striving and then we can enjoy that.

Any state is unsustainable. This joyous state can exist quite often with a quiet mind. You have made a good point though. I'm am afforded the luxury more because of man's advancement. Even still joy can be found in the work of the day. I'll think on this a bit.

Thank you.