Your religion is fiction

MagnusD wrote: Over the past couple of years I have been thinking a lot about where the belief structures of society come from.

The Bible is a collection of stories; I'm under the impression that the Quran is similar. The facts of Buddah's life matters little; it's the story that people cling to. Stories matter in my own religion, from tales of wise and ancient salmon to Cerridwen's Cauldron, and in Viking mythology the Prose Edda is a collection of stories telling of the Gods.

Moving away from religion slightly, many children are (or perhaps were) read similar fairy tales at night; the Three Little Pigs, Cinderella, Little Red Riding Hood; the list goes on, and each story has a moral to tell, and this colours how we see the world; a lot of the time women are portrayed as being weak, in need of rescue, and whilst I do not count myself as sexist, I do sometimes struggle to keep women in mind as equivalents.

[Note: I do not believe in equality; no two people are the same and thus cannot be equal. People have different abilities and skillsets, thus I tend to use the term 'equivalent']

Moving along again, I can call to mind several stories that shape my thinking now, and it's not the old tales; it's stories like The Tales of Redwall (from when I was somewhat younger) Harry Potter (the books) The Inheritance Cycle, Lord of the Rings (films and books), Star Trek (various series) Star Wars, and so many others.

Because these books have shaped me, and in many ways my belief structure and how I view the world, the very core of my being could be described as fiction.

Is that good or bad? Does it invalidate my sense of self, even my existence?

I am guessing many here can relate to this; I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the topic, and what sort of stories may have influenced you over the years?

I apologize for last night MagnusD. I was having a difficult weekend and when I saw the subject "your religion is fiction" with the symbol of Awen, well I lost my temper. My bad! I should of welcomed you as a brother. I will not make that mistake again. Thank you my teacher! Even if you are not real.

I will leave you with this thought.

I am reading Blood & Mistletoe by Ronald Hutton. It can very well be that the Druids have all been made up by Julius Caesar for tactical advantage. But who cares? If you admire a quality in another, it means you already possess it and own it.

May fiction live on forever.

Awen to you my brother.

Rickie The Grey wrote:

let's be concerned with dream worlds and death only when we dream or once we die.

Why wait? These are things we can reflect on now. I don't see any harm in that.

Because neither affects the life we have while awake and alive unless we start wasting our time worrying about them. There are greater mysteries to solve and greater discoveries to make - generally better ways to spend time than to spend the time in this world on fantasizing about other worlds. We'll have enough time to do that when we're there and we won't spend a second of that thinking about this world, or will we? Point is: This is the one reality that matters now. Perhaps not ultimately, but while we're here, that's the one to be concerned about and to spend our precious short time exploring.

Sure, stories are sometimes nice models of some aspects of this reality and are a convenient way of teaching those aspects to the weak mind

Weak minded? I think that's insulting and an elitism statment.

I was referring to children for they are the ones we try to teach using fairy tales, mostly.

It is only when fantasy is being intentionally presented as part of this reality rather than a different one (fantasy), that it becomes harmful to the listener and her fellow people once interaction begins.

You mean like politics?

Not much unlike them, yes, but I was specifically pointing out the grand difference between religions' fiction and other fiction. But sure, technically, every fantasy taught as fact is harmful in one way or another. For instance, this young bright head of politics is speaking about climate change:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7h08RDYA5E

So much for "what's the harm?", huh?

Jayden wrote:

I'm confused mate.

Everything and anything can be harmfull in one way or another.

generally better ways to spend time than to spend the time in this world on fantasizing about other worlds.

Well maybe for you but not everyone. I think fantasizing opens and expands the mind to all sorts of possibilities.

How many great people were fantasizers?

To each his own.

I'm going to read some fiction tonight after spending a day at work in the real world. Maybe I'll do some visualization while I meditate? Maybe I go see the Hunger Games. Yucky movies and their excapism. :laugh:

I tend to have my best days when I have my best nights, a good dream puts me in such a good mood I don't have to spend any energy exercising non-attachment to negative emotions which might be left over from a bad dream!!! I used to believe the imagination helped train the body, now I'm more the other way around.

Leandros Von wrote:

Jayden wrote:

I'm confused mate.

Don't you think U2 look alike? That couple said hello to me on my Pagan forum yesterday. You should be confused. I know there is no relativity now. I apologize.

umm U wot m8?

Jayden wrote: Don't you think U2 look alike?

I wouldn't have said so, but do you ?? it's all about your perspective dude, no need to apologize

Perhaps Magnus D can weigh in and answer my 1st question? Why that Avatar? Why Awen?

MagnusD wrote: Over the past couple of years I have been thinking a lot about where the belief structures of society come from.

The Bible is a collection of stories; I'm under the impression that the Quran is similar. The facts of Buddah's life matters little; it's the story that people cling to. Stories matter in my own religion, from tales of wise and ancient salmon to Cerridwen's Cauldron, and in Viking mythology the Prose Edda is a collection of stories telling of the Gods.

The bible: Collection of historical records and ethics according to one culture and demographic. Also Archaeology would say differently. Look at the capital of the hittites.

The Qur'an ( you might as well have spelt coran, just saying lol) : is a collection of instructions and observations.

Buddha's life means little: How does that factor into vedanta? It's the practicality of his teachings that matters in buddhism, not the guy himself.

Though you have a set focus on a branch of religion instead of just saying "pagan".


To answer the question. Technically that isn't the core of your ego, your core is what studied and tested them to see if they could be practical, built on that and respected the source that inspired you.

I'm sorry, I'm confused if you had a problem?

@ Magnus

As I am not able to make a direct relationship of the thread title to the OP, with the exception of the word religion. . . could you clarify what the thread title means . .

Your = ?
religion = a particular one, certain ones

Hello- I've not been ignoring this topic, but 13 hour night shifts make for little time for replying to posts, and I do hate typing on my phone for any extended period.

I'll be posting some responses after going to teach some Scouts First Aid though!

Just to satisfy Jayden's... curiosity, the Awen is one of the primary symbols used by the Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids, of which I am a member. As well as the symbolic meaning I'm sure you're well versed in, it acts as a handy ID badge.

Mareeka wrote: @ Magnus

As I am not able to make a direct relationship of the thread title to the OP, with the exception of the word religion. . . could you clarify what the thread title means . .

Your = ?
religion = a particular one, certain ones

The title was meant quite literally; that all religions (meaning this in a very broad sense) are based on stories; these stories being no more or less valid as cultural symbols or waypoints as Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings.
It was phrased to as to illicit a response.

sidvkili, spelling never was my strong suit! I taught Physics, not English! I have no problem? I was just wanting some different people's thoughts.

sidvkili wrote:

MagnusD wrote: Buddha's life means little: How does that factor into vedanta? It's the practicality of his teachings that matters in buddhism, not the guy himself.

They named the religion after him; though the teachings are the focus, then I took a meditation course that was run by Buddhists, they seemed to put some importance on the story of the Buddha- they are following the teachings of a man, following in his footsteps, trying to achieve enlightenment as he did. Does that not make him the inspiration, and therefore of some importance?

MagnusD wrote:

Mareeka wrote: @ Magnus

As I am not able to make a direct relationship of the thread title to the OP, with the exception of the word religion. . . could you clarify what the thread title means . .

Your = ?
religion = a particular one, certain ones

The title was meant quite literally; that all religions (meaning this in a very broad sense) are based on stories; these stories being no more or less valid as cultural symbols or waypoints as Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings.
It was phrased to as to illicit a response.

sidvkili, spelling never was my strong suit! I taught Physics, not English! I have no problem? I was just wanting some different people's thoughts.

Welcome to TOTJO Magnus. I hope those 13 hour shifts are not working your over too much.

While this is a very interesting topic, I find myself wondering if there is any certain assumption you have about Jediism (or just TOTJO) behind it?

In our Initiates Program, novices get to learn a great deal about the mythological/fictional stories behind many general sects of religion, (including the fiction of Star Wars as such an example) and the implications they have on humankind's tendencies to use them for helping to define aspects of existence that we have no other way of addressing. After reading your OP, it seems there is a good chance you may really enjoy checking it out.

Mareeka was asking you what she was I think because your assertion in the thread is something that (if I'm understanding it correctly, anyone please correct me if I'm not) many of us here are already aware of, and perhaps were wondering if there was any particular questions about it you might have?

Yes, Proteus . . I had the same thoughts when I asked the question. . .regarding the IP and the TotJO.

Proteus wrote: While this is a very interesting topic, I find myself wondering if there is any certain assumption you have about Jediism (or just TOTJO) behind it?

Assumptions... I have some, though I do try to temper them with an open mind, so that I can let them go once more information is available to take their place.

I'm guessing what you're really asking is whether I assume you're just obsessed fans trying to float X-Wings (Lego models maybe?) with your mind.
No.
Clearly you all chose the Jedi from Star Wars as your inspiration, which I suppose in part is why this post seemed relevant to this forum, but both the fictional Jedi and the doctrine on this site shows clear links to Eastern philosophy, and some references that link into out ancient Western cultures and beliefs; though perhaps that is because both are paths in the same direction.
My assumption here is that you are like most people, trying to make sense of the world around you, trying to find a path that you can follow, and unlike many, forging your own when needed.

Magnus,

I think you are getting some blowback from this because the title is stated as a fact - "your religion is fiction."

To quote from Star Wars, Qui Gon says - "Jedis do not deal in absolutes."

None of us really knows what exactly is going on inside, and outside this universe. We use the things that influence us in this world, and come up with a "best guess" on what it is that is happening. Many people see it through the eyes of one of the many, numerous religions, while others judge it only on what they see and can scientifically prove. Either way, what they believe is the fact of their existence, and no two people have the same experience.

So to come here and to drop down the gauntlet of your opinion, and state is as fact, is an affront to some people, especially since you are seen as a guest here.

Judging by your last post, I get the sense that you too are searching for path to follow, and want to know if this is the place for you. For that, I must commend you, as I think that is why we all come here. What you will find is that what George Lucas used as inspiration for his made-up religion in the Star Wars movies, is based on several ideas from real life religions, and those points are what draw us here, as they resonate with what we feel is the right path. Using the term Jedi, or Jediism is just a way to mix those eastern and western influences into one fluid belief system, and give it a name.


Clif Note version: Your title is confrontational, but you make some good points.

MagnusD wrote: ?

I am guessing many here can relate to this; I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the topic, and what sort of stories may have influenced you over the years?

"Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction"

Kaverael wrote:

Clif Note version: Your title is confrontational, but you make some good points.

Let us not forget one simple fact: Life IS confrontation.