I think i may be going over to the dark side

RedHeron wrote:

Apologies, Br.John, I did misinterpret the intent of your prior post. I don't understand what they mean, or what they are... but my own experience shows that they are definitely present. If yours doesn't, I can't expect anything will convince you that the heaviness of a burden of color is Light. (And every pun is intended on that.)

I do appreciate your input, though... if I could understand the idea better, of there being any kind of burden involved, I might be able to accept your explanation better. That it is directly contrary to my experience doesn't help. I just have to accept that your experience has been different.

In this, I respectfully agree to disagree.

I do not disagree with you. I see red as red and I know when it is cold enough to turn on the heater or get a coat. I know an autistic boy who can instantly without effort give the correct result to questions like 24578 x 91357 = ? while I must use a calculator or at least a pencil and paper.

You merely still need these steps and classifications to use The Force like I still need steps and figures to do these math problems. If I were like that child I would not need them to arrive at the same destination.

I'm not judging which way is better. I can only know the way that works for me.

So, the point in what you're saying is then that the Force expresses in different ways to different people, and that each perception is equally valid?

you got it red...but part of that is also realizing that our perception may not necessarily be the \"truth\" of the matter...hence all perceptions are vaild even if they disagree with your own perception...I peronally believe that the \"truth\" or reality lies beyond our perceptions....

Look at the right side then away then at the left side. Which way is she turning?

in the right counter clockwise in the left clockwise

The more specific we try and explain aspects of The Force the more individual point of view it will become. That's not saying \"Whatever anyone says is right\". It does allow for differnet perspectives that are not wrong yet are not the same.

Count in the limitations of language and ... you all get the idea.

RedHeron wrote:

Jestor wrote:

ok....
So if I am reading all of the posts correctly, I think we agree that;

1) The Force is neither light or dark, as a whole.

2) The combination of the two (and the shades of grey) is what makes the Force.

3) It is the PERCEPTION of the person(s) involved as to whether or not the action is light/dark, wet/dry.......etc.

+5,+4,+3,+2,+1,0,-1,-2,-3,-4,-5 = where the force is zero and perception (as well as the intent I guess) are the integers.

Does this sum up our thread? Or did I miss the mark?

1) I disagree. It is both at once, like the symbol of the Tao: Yin-Yang. They use black/white and red/green and blue/yellow to show that they are opposing. And in each, the seed of its opposite.

2) This I can agree with. All of it is necessary for the Force to be balanced at all.

3) This is the reason for the confusion... the perceptions are what we give name to, and therefore they are real because we name them. To refuse to name them means that we refuse to name hot or cold, because it's all \"temperature\".

The math isn't wrong, per se... but the whole number line is the Force. The \"0\" point doesn't really exist, unless we arbitrarily name it (as we have already named Light and Dark: we choose such things arbitrarily, yet the fact remains that they are well-defined by perception).

The point of the matter is that the sides exist, are well-defined, and are named because of their capacity. They are different uses of the same thing, it's true, but by their use we understand that the universe is made up of these things in order to keep life going.

Even balance must be balanced by imbalance (if that makes sense).

As a whole, the balances must exist. We have negative numbers and positive, but it's all numbers. They are merely the measurement of what we perceive, and the means by which we can come to a fuller understanding of the universe. They are how we express intent and result... and are neither inherently good nor evil.

We have a light side of the Earth, facing the sun; and facing away from the sun, we have the dark side of the Earth. It's in motion, and it's all the Earth, but there is a definite Light Side and Dark Side, and if there were not, the Earth would not and could not support life.

And with the Force, how can we expect that things are any different?[/quote]

Redheron, yes, I think we agree, which was my original posts intention. I mean no disrespect and maybe my math should have looked different, being as zero does not exist (for this discussion, how can what does not exist have a name? Nor does not naming something mean it does not exist.)

Ok, how about this math....+5, +4, +3, +2, +1, -1, -2, -3, -4, -5?

If the numbers cancel each other out, what is left?

The Yin Yang blend, the \"/\" line in it shows there is a mid-point. Yet it is still a complete idea. The zero is the line between the positive and negative.

Maybe I am good today and help an old lady (+3), maybe tomorrow, I cut that old lady off in traffic and flip her the bird (-3).

Maybe, that rock that little girl picked up for her pretty collection (+2), that her brother stole to make a weapon: for malice? (-5), self/family preservation (+5), for food (+2)... The numbers are arbitrary. What is important, is the intent.

A man steals (negative) for food to feed his child (positive) from the Grocer. The Grocer see it as bad. But the child sees it as good to have food. (Who would tell the child that the food was stolen?)

This is my last post on this as I am sure we agree, but possibly, due to the limitations of text for a conversation, it makes this more difficult to see...

I do enjoy this site greatly, as I have stated before, the discussions are always food for thought....................

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Well then, the capacity for using the Force (using, LOL) for good or evil is as diverse our viewpoints on the subject. ^^

Everyone else is, ofcourse, invited to debate with us.

Also (I promise i'm not attacking you RedHeron!), Jedi and Sith can't really be considered \"dualities\".