Should jedi train in combat?

Triscar, I agree with you on how one should train. If you train in a martial art, you should train as if you are planning to fight, so as not to develop "flowery fists" or a useless martial art. What I meant is that in the course of training in a martial art, you can learn many other things that are not martial, such as discipline, perseverance, etc. and those lessons can be much more applicable and useful in our day to day lives.

Correct Agreed. I just feel it is necessary to remind folks to not forget. Combat is combat. It is not something you just play around with because you want something other than combat. May as well go do Yoga or Dance or Hiking or Biking....all of which can earn the same spiritual and diciplinary aspects.

It's like picking up a gun and taking it to the shooting range. No matter how sportsman you get. No matter the meditative and deciplinary aspects you gain (Taking apart a rifle, cleaning and putting it back together can be very meditative) It is still a gun and it can still kill you. Treat it like a gun.

Treat Martial arts like Martial arts. You are learning techniques on how to hurt people....no matter how pretty the wrappings can get around it And some of those wrappings can get veeeeeeerry Frilly haha!!

Fighting is only used by people who like to change / keep a situation. If we accept things to come and go, fighting would be not necessary at all.

Aqua wrote: Fighting is only used by people who like to change / keep a situation. If we accept things to come and go, fighting would be not necessary at all.

Not always a wise course of action or inaction as it were.Accepting someone harming you or stealing from you just makes you a doormat. Some times one must fight for what is right or to protect the wellbeing of themselves or others. Some situations are simply not tolerable to just passively accept.

I think a jedi should train every part of themselves. We are dedicated to improve in all areas...mental (, spiritual) & physical. And combat training, sword fighting usually depends on the trainee to build a specific endurance and strength. As it was said earlier, sword fighting is almost certainly and "outdated" form of combat training. But, can be a training that is part of the Jedi culture (tradition). I practice an aggressive form of pat-a-kai (or western culture refers to it as patty cake or pat-a-cake bakers-man) its a hand to hand combat style training where the trainee is only allowed to start training when they are at a young age. I'll post more about the style in another thread (smiley face). Love u guys.

Codama wrote: I practice an aggressive form of pat-a-kai (or western culture refers to it as patty cake or pat-a-cake bakers-man) its a hand to hand combat style training where the trainee is only allowed to start training when they are at a young age. I'll post more about the style in another thread (smiley face). Love u guys.

*blinks* Isn't that a.....kids....game? I await the new thread

I do think that every person should be trained in some from of self defense. I believe that if more people were capable of defending themselves we would see a decline in crime. Criminals aren't looking to work hard, if people are more likely to fight back they aren't as likely to attack them. As has been stated, there are many other benefits as well.

I also think that if a person has no interest in learning to fight they shouldn't be forced to learn.

I think having some sort of combat training is always a good idea, especially through martial arts or boxing, things like that. Personally, I feel that they can be used as a meditation as some have already stated. The physical aspect of it is definitely important, as training your mind and body gives it discipline and strength as well as serenity for some. Personally, Yoga and Tai Chi are both parts of my routine, one for strength and flexibility, one for fluidity and calm. I do a basic routine with light jogging or walks every day, and it keeps me feeling light in mind, body and spirit. Besides that, I am very much into archery and sword fighting, which use parts of my body that dont normally get use. All this combined gives me routine, it gives me strength and calm and allows me to work out any issues in my mind I might have. The ability to care for myself in a fight is really just an added bonus. Though honestly I do tend to have a lot of energy on the days that I rest, I get bored on those days. Now I can at least meditate on The Force on those days!

Samjames340963 wrote: Should a jedi train in the use of saber fighting and sword fighting? Is there any threats against the jedi order in which we must defend? Im new to being a jedi

"Should" is up to the individual Jedi. I, for instance, am trained in firearms. But they're required in my job. My defense is for my family, myself, and the people around me. The Order can take care of itself

I strongly believe in working within your strengths while shoring up your weaknesses. If some sort of combat is your thing, by all means go for it (although I would recommend something a little more....useful in day-to-day life UNLESS you just are absolutely in love with the idea of swordsmanship then go for it ) If combat ISN'T your thing, maintaining the level of physical fitness you can within your capabilities is a good idea too I think.

It's all a balance between your calling, and your time availability. Honestly, as much as I'd love to get involved in martial arts or some sort of swordsmanship or archery, I have too many other things that I rate a higher priority that have taken my time and focus.

Samjames340963 wrote: Is there any threats against the jedi order in which we must defend? Im new to being a jedi

The biggest threat to the Jedi Order is the idea that there is an "us" to defend and a "them" to fight. Our greatest opponent is our own mental maps, and no amount of physical combat will defend you against yourself.

Manu wrote: .....no amount of physical combat will defend you against yourself.

Are you sure?

Trisskar wrote:

Manu wrote: .....no amount of physical combat will defend you against yourself.

Are you sure?

I don't see it Emrys. BUT I am no martial artist, so I might be at a disadvantage. Care to clarify?

Manu wrote:

Trisskar wrote:

Manu wrote: .....no amount of physical combat will defend you against yourself.

Are you sure?

I don't see it Emrys. BUT I am no martial artist, so I might be at a disadvantage. Care to clarify?

Martial Arts is actually used in the US for "Troubled Teens" and individuals with "Mental/Emotional Struggles" as a means of Self Discipline and "Adjustment" It gives an individual a physically tasking habbit to learn not only about martial arts, but about themselves. My husband (Mindas Ar'ran) used to get cops visit him at our local MMA dojo to help teach some of the teens in their charges. It CAN be a great method of "Defense against yourself" but you got to have a good teacher to guide you

Every Jedi has their own decisions to make. Should ..you... should I? Each individual Jedi has to make their own decisions. My own practice says I think most every one, regardless of belief and philosophy can benefit from a good positive routine practice of physical activity and mental active-ness as well. The idea is to keep new and fresh with as many parts of refreshing ideas as possible to me. I hope this helps with your own personal decisions.

Manu wrote:

Samjames340963 wrote: Is there any threats against the jedi order in which we must defend? Im new to being a jedi

The biggest threat to the Jedi Order is the idea that there is an "us" to defend and a "them" to fight. Our greatest opponent is our own mental maps, and no amount of physical combat will defend you against yourself.

Beautifully said, Manu.

I suggest seeking wisdom first in whatever you pursue, Sam. No weapon can prepare you if your mind isn't prepared, and you need no weapon if it is.

Snowy Aftermath wrote: I suggest seeking wisdom first in whatever you pursue, Sam. No weapon can prepare you if your mind isn't prepared, and you need no weapon if it is.

While there is some wisdom in this I would argue that it is a bit misleading. I can be the most patient, kind, intelligent, wise, sage like person in the world and still be attacked with a weapon, and no matter how much training I do a weapon will almost always be more useful when defending myself against an armed assailant than not having one.

Our animal self's seemed to be instinctively tuned to awareness of what is called a dominance hierarchy. We probably automatically and even subconsciously look around and assess our 'status' in relationship to others so to predict what safe options are available to us and therefore what might be unwise options. This 'status' in animal terms might be physical strength, sexual attractiveness and signs of life success, such as wealth, confidence and support (friends/allies). There is a lot of relevant information which can be found in this seemingly natural process, to predict and avoid or prevent escalation of conflict.

But I think getting dragged into 'combat' should be avoided as much as possible, unless you enjoy training in it or have a background in it, because then you might be able to position yourself in a unique way to reduce the threat to others. This though I don't think is a requirement, or should not be, for someone to define themselves as Jedi..... as many people cannot undertake that path for various reasons. I don't think we should expect proficiency in physical combat as a requirement for survival either, as a switched on mind should be able to give you an advantage in prediction and preparation to shape events in one way or another without resorting to the high risk intervention that is direct physical combat. There are a heap of variables in real combat which are outside martial arts training, as real fights often tend to be brutal, fast, messy and often fatal. All it takes is one mate you didn't notice smashing you in the back of the head with a pole and its all over red rover.

I'm not a martial artist, but if I had to develop a program it would probably be all about falls, locks, throws and blocks and develop strength in those areas for mobility and defensive capability, and then extend training outwards to use improvised weapons along those same lines.... and then spend the rest of my time learning the mind stuff
:evil:

Samjames340963 wrote: Should a jedi train in the use of saber fighting and sword fighting? Is there any threats against the jedi order in which we must defend? Im new to being a jedi

I think this question provides a wonderful opportunity to discuss the heart of how Temple of the Jedi Order views what it means to be ‘Jedi’. Though I openly and happily admit this is more my own interpretation of the Temple’s teachings – an Apprentice who has had ample chance to misinterpret exposure to excellent teachings and teachers. Please, do not hold the Temple of the Jedi Order responsible for my musings. I only ask that you consider them and hope you can find application and insight. To that end, I think that it is important to frame this question properly before attempting to answer it.

To my mind, there are three questions here all hinging on the qualifier of ‘As Jedi’. As individuals, the merits of combat, martial arts, and threat defense – all distinct yet interconnected categories – vary with each of us. Jedi participate in all three, but not on the qualifier of that title. Let me explain that a little. From the moment I embarked on this journey at the Temple, I found concrete answers difficult to come by – save that most things are open to interpretation by the individual. For some that equates to simple evasiveness on the part of the community - that there are no defined standards to which we hold members. This topic provides a periodic source of consternation between Force sub-communities – raises questions about specific requirements of physical fitness, meditation, study, service and many others. Consensus never came easily. On that, I defer to those with more history in the community than I to set the record straight if I am wrong in these generalities. Temple of the Jedi Order may have batted some of the ideas around as well, but concluded that an academic focus worked best within its given limitations. Whether through the Initiate Program or an individual relationship with a training master, the Temple merely provides a figurative mirror into which we can all look – with an aim to improve ourselves. That mirror is through academic rigor – a currency of knowledge and ideas that we can be more certain of in the medium of the internet. Keep in mind that there is no compelling authority here. Little standard beyond the academic. No expectation of prowess in any ability except perhaps to think independently. We DO cultivate certain cultural values, but the application of those values we try to judge with very open minds. For some that equates to an unacceptable, nebulous complacency and lack of accountability. I do not see the individuality of the Temple’s interpretation of ‘Jedi’ as a weakness - I believe that this it remains our singular strength. It advocates that we present the greatest possible version of ourselves to the world, and not what something or someone else would have us be. Those recognized as Knights may not meet my personal standards of physical fitness, specific morality, or academic focus. Or perhaps they far surpass them. All that is immaterial to them striving to find purpose in their lives, immaterial to them presenting that best version of themselves to the universe, and immaterial to their recognition as Jedi.

I submit that the ‘shoulds’ of a Jedi are few and simple - but not easy.

Within that context and qualifier, I don’t think combat, martial arts, and threat defense are among them.

for all intents and purposes, "Jedi" is a just cool way of saying "the quest to be the best, most well rounded, thoughtful, informed, and capable person that I can be"

so "jedi training" is - whatever it takes to accomplish that

what I suggest to everyone, whether they identify as a jedi or not, is to take a bit of time watching predators ambushing and eating prey (perusing the internet for footage is the easiest way, obviously)

all kinds of predators, and all kinds of prey

and realize as you watch that you are witnessing a fundamental component of reality, a basic and inescapable truth which applies to you and me every bit as much as to a gazelle or a rabbit or an owl

if you accept that you are a part of what your'e looking at in that moment, then you'll be in the right state of mind to decide honestly for yourself what measures you ought to take as a result of that understanding, and whatever you decide is fine

Should a Jedi train in Combat...?

The lion has size, speed, tooth and claw. The Viper speed and venomous fangs. Heck, the armadillo has full plate body-armour.

So, how is it the feeble, hairless ape claims to dominate the earth's life-forms?

Your brain....

Train your brain. If you determine combat is part of your brain-training, then so-be-it.

You're not Obi-wan nor A Skywalker.

Once you get past that, be the Jedi that's inside you, not someone else's Jedi....