Does faith or belief need evidence to exist?

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25 Aug 2019 13:39 - 25 Aug 2019 13:41 #342169 by Carlos.Martinez3
Here’s a question for ya my Temple. As Jeddist and as members in our Temple- does evidence HAVE to play a part in faith or belief for you ? Is evidence needed for you to believe ?


Edit: as pertaining to the Force and our own practices and religions.

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Last edit: 25 Aug 2019 13:41 by Carlos.Martinez3.

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25 Aug 2019 14:09 #342176 by Gisteron
What is a "Jeddist"? Is there a new kind of ideology, based on "Jedd"? "Jedd-ism", as it were?


Anyway, at the risk of speaking out of line for possibly not being what ever a "Jeddist" is supposed to be, and to keep it brief: No, evidence is what we present when challenged to explain why we believe a thing when we have it. Faith is the reason we claim when we don't.

I think that for belief evidence can play a role, insofar as the belief in question is within the scope of an evidence-based inquiry. That would be, for instance, any claim about how the world within and around us works, or what is or isn't "part of it" in that functional sense. However, no amount of evidence can help me decide whether or not I find the claim "The circular path C has zero corners." believable, because that claim is not subject to any evidence-based inquiry. Faith however is just an assertion of the belief itself. Of the three languages I speak only one has even different words for "faith" and "belief", so when someone tells me they believe something on faith, I cannot help but hear that they believe it literally because they believe it and for no reason else to speak of. For me, that is not something that can warrant beliefs, whether they concern claims one would seek evidence for or not.

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25 Aug 2019 14:16 #342178 by VixensVengeance aka Kyrin Wyldstar
Faith is a choice to accept something based on no evidence.
Belief is not a choice, its a state of mind that can be based on evidence or not.

As such, both faith and belief are subject to being wrong but at least belief based on some sort of evidence carries the stronger case for being viable. So that is where I try to operate.

Solve' et coagula
Non serviam
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25 Aug 2019 15:04 #342182 by rugadd
What is is called when you believe it as an assumption? Like, one never really put any thought into it, never labeled it a belief or faith. The type of thing you would go to your grave assuming if no one ever said anything about it?

rugadd
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25 Aug 2019 15:26 #342185 by elizabeth
I have faith
But I also question and learn which sometimes strengthens my faith and occasionally weakens one part which I then rethink.
I do seek evidence, even if its just personal
Not sure if that means anything because at times I couldn't prove without doubt something may work
Like I believe I have a connection to nature
Yet I couldnt prove it wasnt all in my mind
That probably doesnt answer you well

I never loose.


TM Karn
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25 Aug 2019 15:38 - 25 Aug 2019 15:41 #342186 by Carlos.Martinez3
They all will answer me well. Smiley face. I truly wanna see how we as a temple think and act and know and how we all see things. I know we are not all the same on many levels but do our practices contradict or does the actual contradiction come from us and not the deeds themselves. That a million other questions I got for the Temple - how do we do it really ? How do we live this Jedi path or one who calls themself a Jeddist. A Jedi - A Jeddist - a Force believer a Force practitioner a believer in the Force... how ever what ever you call it ... is it real ? How do and what parts? How does it apply to us all?


Edit
Being pastor it’s one of those things I think I would love to understand better : how the temple believes and thinks and how they actually apply their faith or practice or ideas. Just me. If ya don’t ya don’t if you do ... I would truly like to know - not argue. I wanna hear your side. What’s faith and belief like to you ?

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 25 Aug 2019 15:41 by Carlos.Martinez3.

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25 Aug 2019 18:26 #342195 by Manu
Unlike Christianity or Islam, that try to both describe the nature of the universe and dictate ethical behavior, Jediism does not go too deeply into making any assertions that are about the nature of the world, and focuses more on how to act in it (orthopraxy vs. orthodoxy).

And even then, orthopraxy is offered as a guide, with questioning of the Doctrine encouraged through an exploration that focuses on rationality and emotional intelligence rather than blind belief.

Thus, I do not see what role “belief” plays in Jediism, except maybe the initial premise that we are at some base level connected, and value life in its many manifestations and that thus we find it desirable to help protect it rather than crush it.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Step aggressively toward your fear. - Jocko Willink

TM: Bruno Moreira (Kyber) | Public Journal
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25 Aug 2019 19:02 #342199 by Uzima Moto
It's the evidence of things "unseen"..

Like when you know a person to be dependable, or to be kind hearted.. you have faith in them to be who you know them to be.. if a stranger were to ask why you deal with that person in certain ways. It be because of your faith in who they are.. at least that's how I think about it.. I'd take someone's serious faith seriously, because there's always a reason behind it..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
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25 Aug 2019 19:06 #342200 by Uzima Moto

Manu wrote: Unlike Christianity or Islam, that try to both describe the nature of the universe and dictate ethical behavior, Jediism does not go too deeply into making any assertions that are about the nature of the world, and focuses more on how to act in it (orthopraxy vs. orthodoxy).

And even then, orthopraxy is offered as a guide, with questioning of the Doctrine encouraged through an exploration that focuses on rationality and emotional intelligence rather than blind belief.

Thus, I do not see what role “belief” plays in Jediism, except maybe the initial premise that we are at some base level connected, and value life in its many manifestations and that thus we find it desirable to help protect it rather than crush it.


How do you act correctly in the world without knowing the nature of it? That seems counterintuitive..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

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25 Aug 2019 19:51 #342205 by Gisteron
Depends what we mean by "act correctly", doesn't it. Surely, the full nature of the world is not something any of us know, right? And yet, we are stuck with it, and with acting in it, for better or for worse. Perhaps then there is a case to be made for acting in ways that "work", ways that produce the outcomes we expect and wish for, and avoid actions that have an empirically good chance at producing outcomes we wish against. It's not perfect, by any means, but it's the only thing we have shy of some sort of miraculous revelation some of us claim falsely to be having...

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