Aramaic to modern English.

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05 Dec 2012 02:37 #82567 by Wescli Wardest
I find that often times the way we "learn" something is not always the way it originally read or was taught. When things are translated they can loose something in the translation. Also, since we currently do hold the same precedence to certain ideals and ways of life, some of the meaning is also lost.

Example: The Lords Prayer translated with our current understanding of the Aramaic language.





Our Father who is throughout the universe,
Let your name be set apart.
Let your Kingdom come.
Let your desire be,
as in the universe,
also on the Earth.
Give us bread for our necessities this day.
And free us from our offenses,
as we have also freed our offenders.
And do not let us enter our temptation,
but set us free from error.
Because your are the Kingdom, Power,
and Glory from ages through ages.
Sealed in trust, faith, and truth.
Amen.


Lamsa's English Translation...
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Br. John, V-Tog, KageKeeper, Golan Wilder

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02 Feb 2013 22:37 #92810 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Aramaic to modern English.
Wjen teaching TKD, and talking constantly with a 75 year old Korean, the laguage differences become apparent...

He used to tell me my "mask" was that of a teacher... My person, appearance, my attitutde, the "jestor-ness"....

When Campbell spoke of masks, and another author, Melvin Powers, also spoke of masks, a light clicked...

He also says to students when they catch a move, "you change your mind?" Meaning many things, but mostly "got it now?"

Let alone two English speaking folks...

My co-worker tells me the other day, "I think thrre is a difference between 'being worried' and 'being concerned', andcwe launched into a conversation...

Words are fun, never assume you understand exactly what someone is saying, you can, most often, only get the jist....

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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02 Feb 2013 22:53 #92812 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic Aramaic to modern English.
Having learned french in school, some spanish on construction sites, and some japanese from martial arts, anime, and manga it is easy to spot similarities in multiple seemingly unrelated languages, as well as differences between languages of a common root....

simply changing sentence structures can change the meaning of the words within it...

even changing the pronunciation of a single word can alter it's meaning...

no matter what languages are used, there is always something lost in translation, something of cultural importance that can only be retained with knowledge , understanding, and experience of both cultures...I can only imagine how much has been lost to time

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine

J.L.Lawson,Sr Knight, B.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)

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02 Feb 2013 22:58 #92814 by JimCode3
Replied by JimCode3 on topic Aramaic to modern English.
Funny how I learned / saw the same things you did, and the language list is similar. learned Spanish in HS (3 years), French self-taught years ago, and I learned Japanese from anime JPOP CDs (which I put to the test in Japan twice, both successfully). I've even translated 3 languages simultaneously on a train in Hiroshima (Spanish [honeymooners], English [American business man], & Japanese [local businessman]), which was a whopper of a mind-skills test, lemme-tell-you! Only The Force could have gotten me through that sequence without any verbal errors ....

I'm being serious about that story.

~ Rev. Jim Scott, D.D.
[In-joke by a bored CCIE] tracert -h 100 216.81.59.173
• ☺ + ☻: The Force is a balance between the light and the dark. Be aware of that when choosing on Thanksgiving day ....
• "I am a leaf on the wind: watch how I soar." - Hoban "Wash" Washburne (Serenity)
• "Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?" ~ George Goebel (live on "Tonight with Johnny Carson")
• "Don't judge a scroll by its paper." ~ Gabrielle (Xena: 1x10 - Hooves and Harlots)
• "Forward through shot & shell, here we go into the mouth of Hell!" - Corporal Louie Nichols (Robotech)
• "How are you? [... blasts the console ...] It was a boring conversation anyway." - Han Solo (SW IV)
• "Five card stud, nothing wild, and the sky's the limit." - Captain Jean-Luc Picard (ST:TNG - All Good Things...)
• "Trust in the Harper: the Harper is good!" - Seamus Zelazny Harper (Andromeda)
• "Sometimes [...] you just have to bow to the absurd!" ~ Capt. Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek: the Next Generation (2x18: "Up the Long Ladder")
• "Did you ever get the feeling that you were forgetting something, but you didn't know what?" ~ Hong Kong Fooey (voiced by Scatman Crothers)
• "Growing up happens in a heartbeat. One day you're in diapers, the next day you're gone. But the memories of childhood stay with you for the long haul. I remember a place, a town, a house, like a lot of houses. A yard like a lot of other yards. On a street like a lot of other streets. And the thing is, after all these years, I still look back... with wonder." ~ Kevin Cooper (adult), final quote of TV show "Wonder Years"
• "When you talk to God, why do you look into the tree tops? Is God a squirrel?" ~ Diana Trent (Waiting for God, "Fraulein Mueller")

Diana: "That's the other point: someone's got to be wrong. It's either billions of them or billions of us. There is no God!"
Tom: "Prove it!"
Jane: "[Enters room] Hello Tom! how are you today?"
Diana: "There's my proof! If your God's so smart, how come He chose this clockwork ding-dong to run his local supporter's club?"
~ Waiting for God, "Fraulein Mueller" - Seamus Zelazny Harper (Andromeda)

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02 Feb 2013 23:05 #92815 by Desolous
Replied by Desolous on topic Aramaic to modern English.
My mother and I have observed this. She is bolivian with spanish as her first language. I am american, with english as my first language. Her best friend sra lopez is french. So when sra comes to visit, she speaks french to my mother, who replies to her and me in spanish, which I usually reply to in english.

Oh, the fun we have with the translation errors.

Master: Senior Knight Akkarin
Location: Alabama, USA
Impure Jediist

Rank: Apprentice

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02 Feb 2013 23:10 #92816 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic Aramaic to modern English.
I can only imagine :laugh:

I've found from experience that often the best form of communication is action....

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine

J.L.Lawson,Sr Knight, B.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)

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03 Feb 2013 13:05 #92886 by Adhara
Replied by Adhara on topic Aramaic to modern English.
Never forget the things we have gained from cultural exchange. We may loose things through translations but we also gain things in getting to know other cultures.
Especially here at TOTJO where so many different cultures come together and teach each other their customs and world views. I find it every time amazing in chat when I talk with others about those things or read it in the forum.

Jedi Knight of TOTJO, A.Div
Translation team member for German, Councillor

Master: Senior Knight RyuJin
Apprentice: Trose, BeBe

'Impossible' is a word that humans use far too often. -Seven of Nine
The following user(s) said Thank You: Wescli Wardest

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04 Feb 2013 01:21 #92978 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic Aramaic to modern English.
Quite right...I don't think I could get by with no anime/manga :woohoo:

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine

J.L.Lawson,Sr Knight, B.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Golan Wilder

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