Clerical Meeting RESCHEDULED (29/12-->5/1)

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27 Dec 2013 23:56 #130864 by Mareeka

Silvermane wrote: I'm guessing this is a closed meeting, not for us of the Novice level?


reasonable question . . . .

yes, things are not as clear on the site and in communications as they may be thought to be . . .

unfortunately . . projections form perception & mis-perceptions . . .

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27 Dec 2013 23:58 #130865 by Zenchi
I believe you must first reach initiate before one may start any clerical training...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
TM- RyuJin

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28 Dec 2013 00:04 #130867 by Zephyrus
I understand the confusion about that. I mean that questions were to be sent by PM. To make things less cluttered here. If it's relevant, I will post it in the thread.

And, about the message therapist, I have one.

The Black Wizard ~ Rainbow Chaos Magick ~ Thelemite

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28 Dec 2013 00:05 #130868 by Mareeka

Shinzen wrote: You could benefit from a massage therapist Con...


a public relations assistant might be helpful?
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28 Dec 2013 00:18 #130872 by Zephyrus
I'm supposed to be the public relations guy. O_O

The Black Wizard ~ Rainbow Chaos Magick ~ Thelemite

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28 Dec 2013 04:11 #130894 by MCSH
Guys!

Let Connor rest!

He is really working hard to keep things together. As many others are doing. And beside he has some sort of exam coming...

'ALL' of the questions you asked are answered in FAQ. Except one. Which both master jestor and I answered, and Connor predicted the question and answered it in the first post.

I'm not saying don't ask things. Please do. But how many times do you need to ask a question? If a change is made it I'll be announced. Even the smallest changes, like correcting a link in FAQ, is announced...

Yes shinzen, you have to be an initiate for two reasons:
1- we want to make sure you know the basics. Which I think you (and others) know... but a rule is a rule.
2- we want to make sure the clerical program won't make you busy and stop you from the IP... which is way more important

Mareeka:
As of a few weeks ago -I think- Connor was assigned by council to be the secretary of clergy.


Master: Wescli Wardest
Clerical Mentor : Master Jestor

Rank: Apprentice
Clerical Rank: Licensed Minister
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28 Dec 2013 04:38 #130897 by Zenchi
Sajjad....relax, I don't see anyone giving Connor a hard time, and questions done been answered...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
TM- RyuJin

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28 Dec 2013 07:20 #130918 by Zephyrus
Shinzen is correct. I'm just doing my job.

For the first few months or so, while we do this, we will all make some mistakes and get bitchy at one another (or at least I will for sure, hehehe). Eventually, people will settle into the groove of the style and we won't have as many questions.

We let it run its course. People will complain, then they will forget or stop caring, and we will go on with our lives to bigger and better things. :)

The Black Wizard ~ Rainbow Chaos Magick ~ Thelemite
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28 Dec 2013 10:34 - 28 Dec 2013 10:41 #130921 by Alexandre Orion
A 'public relations' guy ? All of our clerics, all of our knights also, are the 'public relations' guys. In fact, who doesn't do something touching 'public relations' ? Any time someone talks to someone else - there is a somewhat 'public' 'relation' happening ...

Please scrap that idea, that of 'public relations' as it has come to be known in consumer society (provided anyone can even recognise that for what it is) -- at least here within the Temple. It carries in it the classic separation of 'us/them' ... and 'we' need to make 'them' like us. It conjures up a sense of some sort of propaganda going on, a commerce of 'trust', a vindication for Edward Bernays.

It does not feel as though that is what we're about - 'public relations' in this way. We would best not appeal to current custom to arouse our own popularity. Our Temple is not a popularity contest to award inflated ego as a trophy ...

... we are service.

One very clear reason for the Initiates' Programme being a pre-requisite to Seminary is that how can one really embark upon the process to be a minister of the Force until one has come to the understanding of the basics of the Jedi ? The Initiates' Programme is often regarded as the first set of hoops to jump through, in order to access an apprenticeship where the 'real learning' takes place ... well, no, it is not. It is much more important. Everything one needs to know, to practice, to be a most apt Jedi is laid out in the IP. Everything thereafter is simply refinement.

What does the word 'initiate' (as a verb) mean ?

in·i·ti·ate [v. ih-nish-ee-eyt; adj., n. ih-nish-ee-it, -eyt]
verb (used with object), in·i·ti·at·ed, in·i·ti·at·ing.

1. to begin, set going, or originate
2. to introduce into the knowledge of some art or subject.
3. to admit or accept with formal rites into an organization or group, secret knowledge, adult society, etc.
4. to propose (a measure) by initiative procedure
adjective
5. initiated; begun.
6. admitted into an organisation or group, secret knowledge, etc.
7. introduced to the knowledge of a subject.*

It seems to me as though many regard the IP as just something to get done with and beyond. It can't be. If we get 'beyond' the IP, we effectively get 'out of' Jediïsm. That would be silly now, wouldn't it ?

You see, this isn't like 'school' where you are constantly 'adding to' knowledge, from more basic to more precise ... Here in the TotJO, we present you with all you need right upfront - the IP. That is as complicated as it gets. You all know the phrase : "you must un-learn what you have learnt" (from Yoda, I think) but you may not believe it. It is however fundamental. We aren't going to get anywhere if the Code is not understood on a very intimate level --

'There is no emotion ; there is Peace' -- 'Emotion' comes from 'e-movere' (latin) and essentially means 'to disturb'. There is 'peace' when we don't take ourselves (our learnt, conditioned convictions, opinions and thoughts*) so damned seriously ....

'There is no ignorance ; there is knowledge' -- 'Ignorance', to ignore, happens when we reject outright what isn't in conformity with what we are convinced we 'know' (ibid*) ; 'knowledge' can only come by not ignoring, not rejecting ....

'There is no passion ; there is serenity' -- (this does not mean the same as the first line) 'Passions' here refers to our desires, that about which we have strong feelings. Once we get an understanding of our motivations, it is much easier to come back to a state of composure, the 'Serenity' ....

'There is no Death ; there is the Force' -- Life is eternal and imperishable (timeless, now, self-sustaining and self-renewing, systemic) 'Life', not my life or your life or her/his life, but Life in the grand sense ; some organisms may die, but Life continues, evolution is still happening. And the consciousness manifests as each living thing as the One Living Thing that is (at least an aspect of) the Force - the origin of it all and the culmination of it all - Alpha & Omega as it were ....

Now, essentially this is what Joseph Campbell and Alan Watts, and even Ms McTaggart are talking about. There are other good sources, even and including what we are saying here in our forums (when we're not bitching at one another and needing to be 'right'), but all in all, this is the essence of the IP. Like I told you before - the rest is simply refinement. But one needs to be rendered a little crude again before being re-refined. In other words, one has to begin at least to question, to shed some methodical doubt upon all that which one already knows, what one already considers 'common knowledge' or 'common sense' from which our emotions, ignorance, passions and terror of death results. And there it is in the IP, just waiting to be considered with reasonably open hearts and minds.

Now you know why we ask people to take an earnest approach to the IP before doing anything else. It is because what is contained in the IP is the essential foundation of our faith. It even, when thoroughly studied, gives one a better understanding of what 'faith' is (if you haven't got that yet, then please go back to the IP).

***

Okay, back to the 'public relations' guy ...

Connor is not our 'heat shield'. If anyone has a complaint about the practices of the Clergy, please direct them to myself or to Akkarin. Your complaints are our property to tend. We will do our best to respond to your concerns, answer you questions, ease your tensions. Please do not take offence that we have clergy meetings among clergy members - this seems to me very appropriate. We are just beginning a new ministry and need to discuss how we can establish and accomplish our goals to the service of everyone of the Temple, from guests to Councillors, in the most responsible way. We cannot yet respond to all of the questions that may come up because we still have a lot of questions ourselves ...

Please be assured - we are not holding closed meetings like some weird coven or the Egyptian mystery schools wherein we are hoarding all the nifty secrets to the nature of Life and the Universe and are doling them out to you in droplets just to satisfy your hunger for secret knowledge ... No, it isn't like that at all.

We are simply organising.

So please, everyone, let's just do what we have to do. None of us, guest to Councillor, the newest person just registered today all the way to Br John, the founder of our Order, let's not get too far away from the IP - because, that is all any of us are really doing, doors open or closed, applying what we find in the IP to how we live our Temple.

And for those of you who are curious about what we'll be doing in Seminary -- well ... the IP.

respectfully submitted,
your servant
Alexandre Orion, Pastor

*http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/initiate?s=t

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
~ Henri Bergson
Last edit: 28 Dec 2013 10:41 by Alexandre Orion.
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28 Dec 2013 11:17 #130923 by Zenchi
What? No secret meetings in the temples broom closet? :( Damn, and here I was working hard on my secret handshake...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
TM- RyuJin
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alexandre Orion

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