Resignation:Pastor/VP of Clerical Affairs, Councillor

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10 Apr 2019 21:25 - 10 Apr 2019 21:28 #337066 by Carlos.Martinez3
I’m going to say this in public...V I hope you stick around because I need good, wise, solid council. Especially from the founders and from the tenured members of the Temple, who know proper procedure. Where we are now, and where we’re not...need to merge. Let’s bridge that gap, processes and procedures have been lost, forgotten, or simply ignored over the past few years and we need to get it back. I look forward to the entire Temple returning...one way or another. If this is the moment we hit the reset button, then so be it.
I’m not laying any blame anywhere...this is day 1 for me..so here we go.
Thank you for the open dialogue.
Thank you for your clarity and experience, and patience, and respect.

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Last edit: 10 Apr 2019 21:28 by Carlos.Martinez3.
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11 Apr 2019 07:39 #337072 by ren

V-Tog wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Not arguing but simply stating I was appointed by the existing pastor to take over as ... pastor. So it was an appointment.



I promise none of my comments are directed at you personally - I'm just curious about the process. And I really appreciate your response. :)

Reading between the lines of Ros' post she hasn't 'appointed' anyone in the conventional sense - it's not a choice she has made personally, unless I am misunderstanding - she has just named the person that she has been told that the rules (if we can track this legislation down somewhere?) dictate she must name.

I was one of the founding members of the Synod and the purpose of it was always to ensure that all major decisions and the general direction of the Clergy were agreed through a process of group discussion and contemplation - so it's just a little odd to me that, as far as I can tell from what Ros said, there has been no such conversation - neither amongst the Synod, the wider Clergy, the general membership who make up our Clergy's congregation, nor presumably the Council - on probably the most important Clergy matter that we as a Temple ever have to face.

Again, it's not a comment on your appointment - you would very likely have been appointed anyway, I imagine! - it's just a point of personal curiosity as to why, as a Temple, we would allow really any office of such importance to be filled via an automatic process rather than via one of thorough evaluation.


As we both have witnessed the yield of group decisions, I doubt a group decision could have amounted to a more thorough evaluation than the process that saw Carlos become Associate and remain such in the first place. I am sure had she thought him unfit for the role Rosalyn would have found someone more suitable before resigning.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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11 Apr 2019 21:51 - 11 Apr 2019 21:55 #337083 by Zenchi

ren wrote:

V-Tog wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Not arguing but simply stating I was appointed by the existing pastor to take over as ... pastor. So it was an appointment.



I promise none of my comments are directed at you personally - I'm just curious about the process. And I really appreciate your response. :)

Reading between the lines of Ros' post she hasn't 'appointed' anyone in the conventional sense - it's not a choice she has made personally, unless I am misunderstanding - she has just named the person that she has been told that the rules (if we can track this legislation down somewhere?) dictate she must name.

I was one of the founding members of the Synod and the purpose of it was always to ensure that all major decisions and the general direction of the Clergy were agreed through a process of group discussion and contemplation - so it's just a little odd to me that, as far as I can tell from what Ros said, there has been no such conversation - neither amongst the Synod, the wider Clergy, the general membership who make up our Clergy's congregation, nor presumably the Council - on probably the most important Clergy matter that we as a Temple ever have to face.

Again, it's not a comment on your appointment - you would very likely have been appointed anyway, I imagine! - it's just a point of personal curiosity as to why, as a Temple, we would allow really any office of such importance to be filled via an automatic process rather than via one of thorough evaluation.


As we both have witnessed the yield of group decisions, I doubt a group decision could have amounted to a more thorough evaluation than the process that saw Carlos become Associate and remain such in the first place. I am sure had she thought him unfit for the role Rosalyn would have found someone more suitable before resigning.


She's going to not like my posting this, but enough of the hush tactics, it's never served this temple only a few at the top...

She felt like she didn't have much choice, and has too much grace to say it publicly. She'd prefer it go without incident as she does not wish to be a source of stress here...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
TM- RyuJin
Last edit: 11 Apr 2019 21:55 by Zenchi. Reason: Tired of biting my tongue...
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11 Apr 2019 22:52 #337084 by ren
? She's always had the choice to stay, leave, choose who she works with and how. I don't know what the hush tactics presumably are, I personally asked her not to resign numerous times but I also respect her decision to do so, whether her decision is one I agree with or not.

I won't presume what her reasons for her initial decision or her accelerating it are, but I'll say that there's only so much anyone can do. Eventually people get tired and have to prioritise.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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11 Apr 2019 23:03 #337087 by Carlos.Martinez3
So feel free to hit me up in pm or how ever you like about what ever your feel like you need. Announcements - I feel , is hardly the place to have such conversations and feels like if there are any concerns on the matter there are avenues ready and willing and awaiting. May the Force be with us all in this time of transition.

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Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova

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11 Apr 2019 23:20 #337090 by Rosalyn J

Rosalyn J wrote: First let me start with a sincere apology . This process has been too long and in the meantime, the ministries of this temple have struggled. I also have been appraised of the official process in that the Associate Pastor is meant to take the reigns in the absence of the Pastor. So the process I set up is meant to elect a new Assiciate Pastor, and not Pastor.
In any case, I have overstayed my welcome. I'm happy to Ordain Carlos should he choose to accept the position of Pastor, but this will likely be my last act as a part of the Clergy for a few months. I apologize once again for what mustve been a very laborous waiting process. I am resigning effective immediately


I just want to reiterate what I have said here.

I've laid out the facts as best I can:
-I set up a process to elect a new pastor back in February. The process was too long and also not the preferred nor official process. I was appraised of the official process on Tuesday. Apologies that I didn't/didn't have the energy to argue in favor of the process set up by me rather than the one set some time ago. The Official proccess is that the Associate Pastor takes over at the resignation of the Pastor.
-While we were in the election process, ministries were declining.
- Regardless of what I may have wanted in terms of process, I support Carlos and most importantly, I support the membership here. I apologize for any confusion or hurt or anything I may have caused in my rather abrupt departure.
When I have some time to rest, I will be back to minister, though probably not in any job capacity.
-I want to reiterate that I support Carlos and I would ask that you all join me.

Be good to one another. May the Force Be With You All
The following user(s) said Thank You: Neaj Pa Bol, ren, Adhara, V-Tog, Carlos.Martinez3

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12 Apr 2019 03:54 #337093 by jpadkins
Thank you Ros for all of your love, guidance, and service to the Temple. May you always feel the presence of the Force.

It is in the journey we find ourselves.
In ourselves, we strive for balance.
In balance there is peace.
I am an instrument of peace.

I shall live my life with joy.
I shall stay connected to All.
I shall shine a light for those who are in darkness.
I shall be a beacon of hope in the sea of despair.
For I am but one of the many instruments in the One Song.
And I am an instrument of peace.

May you feel the presence of the Force!
What does your True Awesome Life look like?
TrueAwesomeLife.com

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12 Apr 2019 20:20 #337115 by V-Tog
I’m a bit late but thank you to Carlos and Ren for your responses to me.

Carlos, I noted what you said to me and I’m grateful for your sentiments. I have been in the process of trying to work out what the best way for me to serve is at this time, and I haven’t quite figured it out yet - but I’ll get there. I’m not going anywhere right now, I promise.

I’m pretty sure that I don’t have anything more to offer than anyone else, but I can appreciate it’s a bit of an all hands on deck situation at the moment!

Ros, thank you for your clarification also, and it’s good to read that you intend to continue active ministry in the not too distant future - looking forward to seeing you back on the deck ;)
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15 Apr 2019 22:39 #337224 by peace
Thank you for everything Rosalyn! Your encouragement will definitely be missed as you have helped me more than you could ever know, but I wish you good luck in wherever life leads you.

Senior Knight of the Order; Ordained Clergy Person

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16 Apr 2019 14:12 #337244 by Kobos
Thank you Rosalyn, I hope you get the chance for some rest.

Much Love,
Tim

Fighting what you cannot see, will only lead you to lash out with violence towards everyone. Know your enemy, and you may find yourself a friend.

You can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile- Men without hats

Training Masters: Carlos.Martinez3 and JLSpinner
TB:Nakis

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