IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: Initiate Programme Update

except Jestor is wrong, and should know that the two most important documents on this site, the doctrine and the faq, were not changed step by step, and those two changed document would not exist had we ever tried to get step-by-step council-approved design. When I made you editor to update the FAQ, I was fine with letting you edit the master one bit at a time... Mark had asked that the master remain intact and that we vote. In the end Mark forgot about his own demands and we let the new faq through because there was no doubt it was better than the old one... I'll let you look at the doctrine update thread yourself to see how I went about it... Didn't take months or years, although unlike the IP I didn't have to make people read the material.

the council is a committee, and those are good for case studies, gathering new ideas etc. not at designing an efficient/beautiful system. The easiest way to keep everyone happy is to never do anything.

It's impossible trying to make everyone happy and everything changes with time...

I am happy with both systems. Cause they are both relevant. I do not think one has more of a benefit as the other. The greater lesson here is that resolving an issue quickly and harmoniously is more important as the issue in and of itself.

I was away for a while due to personal issues, but now I'm back. Should I just start over again?

Minerva wrote: I was away for a while due to personal issues, but now I'm back. Should I just start over again?

No, the content remains the same

The order is the same too, except some of the lessons were broken up into separate ones. Just continue on from wherever you were, if it turns out that you hadn't done a lesson (by accident) then we'll let you know when you submit your work

More content! :woohoo:

Lesson 4 which was previously entitled 'The Field' is now entitled 'Connections' and now has two different parts. Only one part is required to complete the lesson, an alternative to 'The Field' was added which is called 'Mindwalk'.

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/component/content/article/46-initiate/1879

To complete this lesson ('Connections') you can do either the part entitled 'Mindwalk' or the part entitled 'The Field'. You may do both if you wish but only completing one part is required for completing the lesson.

*Disclaimer*

People have asked whether this is the proof the Temple uses when it claims a belief in The Force. We do not take this material as literal fact but as a potential explanation for the existence of something that connects and binds the universe.

Mindwalk

Please watch the material 'Mindwalk' and write a few paragraphs on your understanding of the content and what the message or purpose of the material is. We strongly suggest you make notes as you go along.

Mindwalk - (video)

The film 'Mindwalk' is based on the book 'The Turning Point by Fritjof Capra' which is available in text and can be done as an alternative to the film.

Fritjof Capra - The Turning Point (text)

The Field

Please listen or read the material "The Field by Lynne McTaggart" and write a few paragraphs on your understanding of the content and what the message or purpose of the material is. A chapter by chapter analysis is not required. We strongly suggest you make notes as you go along.

Lynne McTaggart - The Field (audio), (text)

Another update!

The council is happy to announce that the ip has been expanded a little!

A lesson 0 has been added .

And an alternative part to meditation has been added (Krishnamurti video).

http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/component/content/article/46-initiate/2066

(The formatting errors will be fixed shortly)

Why?

Well the temple structure is actually from the seminary training and that is being updated and so we decided to move it into the ip. Members of the temple ought to understand the structure of their temple.
Why lesson 0? Well this lesson should come before most others and we either had it at the end or the beginning. But we don't want to have to adjust all the other lessons by 1 making campbell lesson 2 and so on, so this is the easiest way of doing it. If there is ever a big update again then that is when that sort of thing will be done if ever.

Why Krishnamurti? Well he is as good as Watts, perhaps better, and he talks about similar things. Having a very similar alternative offers a little choice, some people do not like Watts and it would be a shame if they dild not get the most out of the meditation lesson because of that.

Damn. I saw the word "Krishnamurti" and thought he'd replaced McTaggart.

We live in hope.. :whistle:

Otherwise, this looks like a couple of great additions, thank you Akkarin.

Why lesson 0? Well this lesson should come before most others

Structure of the order should come first? Have you guys gone completely barking mad?

ren wrote:

Why lesson 0? Well this lesson should come before most others

Structure of the order should come first? Have you guys gone completely barking mad?

About a minute ago I actually added a line saying that they may begin at another lesson and revisit this at a later date.

But yes, it would help if they knew how stuff worked, who the council were, the clergy etc. This is the same as asking them to read the faq before they begin, and many of the links lead to the faq.

ren wrote:

Why lesson 0? Well this lesson should come before most others

Structure of the order should come first? Have you guys gone completely barking mad?

Um, yes...

Yes I am...

But we did debate its placement, and after some talking thought, that in the front, so that a newb would know who to ask, or that they could help a guest by referring them to the right person, would be a good thing to know up front....

No back-slapping or ego-boosting...

Sort of a "here is the list of people to ask questions to, if a question arises"...

Make you feel better?...

Ive not paid much attention previously, because... well, I'm finished with the IP, and I don't mean to sound impertinent, but is it just me or is the IP beginning to look a lot like "Things my Master likes" :whistle: :blink:

Putting it up front makes just as much sense as having Campbell first ever did. Whilst I enjoyed that part of the IP it always felt like a bit of an "apology" for what we do here... "You can make a religion out of Star Wars, honest!".

Was going to make the who to go to for what point myself... how many new members come on asking Joseph Campbell's opinion of the symbolism of caves in the construction of churches, vs " How do I become an Apprentice?", "Who do I go to for x?" etc

Something's got to go first... why not something which may be of immediate practical use?

Brenna wrote: Ive not paid much attention previously, because... well, I'm finished with the IP, and I don't mean to sound impertinent, but is it just me or is the IP beginning to look a lot like "Things my Master likes" :whistle: :blink:

Lol, actually the krishnamurti was proposed by ren a long while ago. The Mindwalk? Yes that, but also in response to people complaining about the field lol.

Already we ask them to read the FAQ, which is insanely long and people just don't do it anyway. That's why when people (who aren't members) log-in they're redirected to a page that tells them what to do... And one of the first things they're told is:

-believe in the force
-accept doctrine
-take the oath
-apply

With the ugly, unnecessary administrative stuff having lower importance than the Force and the Doctrine. A training course (which should be jediism 101) should not make something like the structure of the order a priority, especially not for someone who has essentially just registered an account.

It is difficult to find a "right" ordering for the IP... personal tools are important, but it can't really be at the beginning... Similarly I'd prefer to start with essays, move on to other things, then revisit the essays...




...And for goodness' sake, stop debating this! Design by committee makes William Shakespeare look like an amateur at tragedy. :silly:

Akkarin wrote:

ren wrote:

Why lesson 0? Well this lesson should come before most others

Structure of the order should come first? Have you guys gone completely barking mad?

About a minute ago I actually added a line saying that they may begin at another lesson and revisit this at a later date.

Sounds smart. When you place something first but tell people they don't have to do it first, those who really don't want to do it right then and there will bypass it while the majority of people will do it first.

We used to have that Lesson One that ask the student to know the structure and roles of the temple staff... Only we told them that nothing was required of them, and they seemed to most often skip it...

Then, when we updated, we dropped that part....

So, this is more like an open book exam, or a little research... Its not hard, and copy/pasting is easy enough to do... lol...

Even the FAQ, it isnt really there to read like a article, it is there as a source of info...

"Well, I PMed Jestor and Akkarin, and no answer yet, I wonder if the FAQ will have anything on it?"

The FAQ, if we are lucky, gets a quick glance, and then they move onto the meat of TOTJO...

[strike]Making fun of Jestor...[/strike] Er, I mean being Jedi....:lol:...

Ren wrote: That's why when people (who aren't members) log-in they're redirected to a page that tells them what to do...And one of the first things they're told is:

-believe in the force
-accept doctrine
-take the oath
-apply

And really, all we should be asking is for manners anyone would expect of their guests....

Because, everyone is a guest, until they decide otherwise...

Some dont want to be members of totjo, and thats fine... But, manners and etiquette should be understood...

Then Ren wrote: With the ugly, unnecessary administrative stuff having lower importance than the Force and the Doctrine. A training course (which should be jediism 101) should not make something like the structure of the order a priority, especially not for someone who has essentially just registered an account.

It is difficult to find a "right" ordering for the IP... personal tools are important, but it can't really be at the beginning... Similarly I'd prefer to start with essays, move on to other things, then revisit the essays...

The ugliness of the administration is only ask to be learned by those wanting to take the training...

A guest will never see it if they never read the IP....

And, its not like we are asking for undying loyalty to TOTJO... Not even the Oath asks for loyalty to TOTJO...

Only loyalty to the "Force"... And even that we dont define... Leaving that to the individual to define for them self...

it's not about being loyal or not, or about the organization being right or wrong...It's about priorities...

The system is there to support the beliefs, not the other way around...

Yes sir, it is...

And when I was in school, the didnt give me my books, and allow me to wander the halls...

We met the admin staff, and learned the rules before ever learning anything, IF we learned anything, :lol:....

By knowing that Knights are there to help answer their questions, that it is their JOBS here at TOTJO, then, they know that it "isnt a bother"...

I get "Sorry to bother you" or "I have a dumb question" all the time...

No one bothers me, and their are no dumb questions...

So, knowing there is support, and who that is, for the learning part, does help with the beliefs...

I feel I am not being clear still....

Hmmm....

The staff, is here to support the student, who is doing the IP, to support their belief...

And, one of my favorite, things to say: "We are all here to help one another, only some people forget that."

By knowing that Knights are there to help answer their questions, that it is their JOBS here at TOTJO, then, they know that it "isnt a bother"...

this was already in the IP introduction, at least the one I made. And all this stuff is in the FAQ...