Your religion is fiction

Over the past couple of years I have been thinking a lot about where the belief structures of society come from.

The Bible is a collection of stories; I'm under the impression that the Quran is similar. The facts of Buddah's life matters little; it's the story that people cling to. Stories matter in my own religion, from tales of wise and ancient salmon to Cerridwen's Cauldron, and in Viking mythology the Prose Edda is a collection of stories telling of the Gods.

Moving away from religion slightly, many children are (or perhaps were) read similar fairy tales at night; the Three Little Pigs, Cinderella, Little Red Riding Hood; the list goes on, and each story has a moral to tell, and this colours how we see the world; a lot of the time women are portrayed as being weak, in need of rescue, and whilst I do not count myself as sexist, I do sometimes struggle to keep women in mind as equivalents.

[Note: I do not believe in equality; no two people are the same and thus cannot be equal. People have different abilities and skillsets, thus I tend to use the term 'equivalent']

Moving along again, I can call to mind several stories that shape my thinking now, and it's not the old tales; it's stories like The Tales of Redwall (from when I was somewhat younger) Harry Potter (the books) The Inheritance Cycle, Lord of the Rings (films and books), Star Trek (various series) Star Wars, and so many others.

Because these books have shaped me, and in many ways my belief structure and how I view the world, the very core of my being could be described as fiction.

Is that good or bad? Does it invalidate my sense of self, even my existence?

I am guessing many here can relate to this; I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the topic, and what sort of stories may have influenced you over the years?

I think the core of this is figuring out when fiction crosses over into the realm of mythology.

It's not supposed to be fact -- it is to be faith.

Faith doesn't mean just 'believing is something one cannot verify' : essentially it just means "Don't panic !"

Dont panic about what?

Khaos wrote: Dont panic about what?

Anything... Have faith it'll be alright...





Oh! And carry a towel...

Faith, when it comes to religions means exactly that: Accepting a truth on no evidence and potentially even despite evidence to the contrary. There is no reason to panic either way. Either you abandon reason and your natural curiosity in favour of faith - a value that it is so grossly misplaced to be called a virtue that it is nothing short of an insult to actual virtues - or you don't and actually investigate first, regardless of what the proposition is.

As for fiction and mythology, I'm not sure there is a sharp line and I'd argue that there hardly is any at all. Essentially both are stories, with the difference being that mythology may circulate around close people and locations and tell more meaning than a story while fiction is just any story that is made up rather than witnessed. In that sense, the set that is fiction does include myths or at least shares a great amount of stories with the set that is myths.

Now, that being said, I agree that the stories we grow up with shape our personalities, whichever stories those might be. However, it does make a difference wether you are told the stories are true. When I was a kid, I heard and read stories about Baron Münchhausen and in many of them the author, speaking in the name of the Baron himself, emphasized that those were true stories, and as incredible as they were, I actually tried to force myself to believe they were and I needed reinforcement through my parents that they were not to drop the notion. I might add that growing in a non-religious although not explicitly anti-religious household, what I believed about fairy tales of childhood were only affecting my imagination and occasionally some of my emotions, but looking back, I can't say how different I would be without some of them or with others in their place. Certainly, my perceptions about physics or horse anatomy would be shattered in school, if my parents reinforced the notion that Münchhausen did in fact pull himself out of a swamp and did in fact ride a horse that was cut in half.
And religions often have a habit of being taught as fact. Indeed, if the Qur'an didn't repeatedly and annoyingly repetitively mention how good and great and forgiving and loving and wonderful Allah is, I doubt too many would think anything like that about it. And if nobody kept telling each other that the book is actually true and good from cover to cover, hardly anyone would care for its most accurate depictions of the geocentric nature of our solar system or the solid nature of the sky dome. If I told a child the story of Abraham and Isaac or of the Flood or of Judgement Day and didn't mention they were actually true, it would not perceive them as any more real than the Toy Story or Snow White. I think the only difference to the child would be, that it would have less nightmares about the witch and her two-faced appearance and poisoned apples than about the egotistical maniac and his urge to sick tests and mass murder.
So where Toy Story teaches how cutting one's delusions of grandeur and consider one's fellows makes you a good friend, the story of Abraham teaches how being a mindless robot striving to murder once the button is pushed makes you a righteous servant. Thus, I beg to consider that not every story is equally good and by talking the bad ones good they don't get on par with those that are good all by themselves.

I suppose I should dissert a bit on what 'faith' is .... a few measly centuries of absurd abuse, and everyone thinks that it is imagination.

It really doesn't mean 'believe in' anything whatsoever. It simply means, as I said humorously earlier, 'stay calm'.

Jestor wrote: Oh! And carry a towel...

And remember to give thanks for all the fish :whistle:

I think Magnus, you would appreciate the Joseph Campbell part of the Initiate Program

I am curious about your avatar. Tell me about yourself, why you chose that symbol, why you are using it and what religion you are practicing?

There are so many trolls... R U or RU not R2D2?

The symbol should be used with respect. You best be able to back it up.

The concept of equality doesn't suggest that everyone is the same... it means that everyone deserves the same rights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkXYsYfvyRI&feature=player_detailpage

and the point of the last two posts is.....?

Awen my dear... Awen!!!!

Yes, i can see that. I was refering to why youre postic pic after pic without comment or explanation

Is it fiction? Is it fake? Where is the line drawn between real and imaginary? On what grounds can we decide the difference?

:silly:

Brenna wrote: Yes, i can see that. I was refering to why youre postic pic after pic without comment or explanation

I apologize for that. I can see how it can be annoying. I will refrain from doing it in the future.

Streen wrote: Where is the line drawn between real and imaginary? On what grounds can we decide the difference?

We have a world to share. That's the one reality that actually bears consequences to ourselves and our fellow primates. It is this reality that matters now, be it real in the end or not. So let's be concerned with this reality and let's not be too disregarding of it in favour of realities that don't affect our lives. Let's live think and act and work while we're still alive and while we aren't dreaming and let's be concerned with dream worlds and death only when we dream or once we die. Its not that fuzzy of a line. There is a method of telling truth from falsehood, reality from fantasy and fact from fiction. And the more and the better it is used, the better it makes our lives within the reality it is concerned with.

Sure, stories are sometimes nice models of some aspects of this reality and are a convenient way of teaching those aspects to the weak mind. It is only when fantasy is being intentionally presented as part of this reality rather than a different one (fantasy), that it becomes harmful to the listener and her fellow people once interaction begins.

On what grounds can we decide the difference?

I don't know about "we" but I'm OK with a little fiction and fantasy.

let's be concerned with dream worlds and death only when we dream or once we die.

Why wait? These are things we can reflect on now. I don't see any harm in that.

Sure, stories are sometimes nice models of some aspects of this reality and are a convenient way of teaching those aspects to the weak mind

Weak minded? I think that's insulting and an elitism statment.

It is only when fantasy is being intentionally presented as part of this reality rather than a different one (fantasy), that it becomes harmful to the listener and her fellow people once interaction begins.

You mean like politics?