Important Biblical Figures!

I recently had a discussion with a good person about a biblical figure, that I would love to learn more about. Though I grew up as an Irish Catholic I never really paid attention. So, in spirit of that I would love to learn more about the biblical figures that people draw inspiration from. I would love to have a great discussion here!

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

We kind of started talking about Samson in another thread, talking about hair. The story of Samson starts in Judges 13. The first thing we really learn about Samson is that he was raised from birth to undergo this "Nazerite vow". This is the source of the Rastafarian's dreadlocks.


7 But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.

This was also the covenant or agreement between Samson and God that allowed him to have the inhuman strength he's known for. He's kind of a juxtaposition to David who defeated Goliath. Samson, instead, was the Goliath. We should also note verse 2 because as it is with other cases where God intervenes, to in essense claim some aspect of human lineage, Samson's mother is barren. This was also true of Abraham's wife, of John the baptist's mother, etc. Extraordinary fruit seem to require extraordinary births in the minds of the Hebrews. I think because of this holy beginning, a kind of holiness (holy=set apart) had to be maintained. The nazarites being a kind of priesthood, fits squarely into this. There is also some parallels with Jesus, his baptism, and being called a "Nazarene". This idea of cleanliness was equivalent to worthiness and determined whether or not God could use or more accurately possess you. This "possession" is never really put into crass terms when it comes to the "holy spirit" but it is treated the same way. There were "clean" spirits as well as "unclean" spirits and all spirits could inhabit and influence people. Hence verse 25...

25 And the Spirit of the Lord began to move him at times in the camp of Dan between Zorah and Eshtaol.

For the record - I’m not a Christian. I am 100 percent Modern day Jeddist - Jedi. It’s a passion and a focus for me. I strive to remind myself daily of these things. In doing that - Jospeh - the story of Joseph comes to mind. There a saying in my circle - the Aladdin effect or for the Christians in the room the Joseph effect. Joseph was a important mans son but he got sold by the upset and fed - upness- of his other brothers, being the favorite kid brother and all. He was taught to read and think and write. During all his trials and imprisonments- his faith - was amplified - by his character. This is how I take the story from there. What was inside each time showed by great character traits... even when he was locked up. The Aladdin effect is when you just kinna got that mind set like - ok well I’m here - let’s do this - I’m a street rat - I’ll improvise. But it’s that “well I figure it out “ that I love. It transcends religion and creates a character well welcomed anywhere.
Character that displays or amplified your faith - what a concept !

Of course the story Samson is most famous for is the one in which his hair is cut and he loses his strength. However, this happens later. It's also very interesting what happens previouosly. Samson seems to have more of a thing to foreign women. In chapter 14 we see him asking to take a Philistine woman. This was not common and so we should take this story as a cautionary tale against Hebrew men marrying foreign women. Women were already seen through a very patriarchal male chauvinist lense where they didn't trust women. This was only magnified when it came to foreign women. So hold that thought.

(again we're now in chapter 14)

So again, verse 6 we have the spirit of YHWH possessing Samson and killing a lion with his bare hands. We should also think of Samson as an allegorical proxy to Israel and how God would help Israel as a nation, WHEN IT WAS PURE/clean. But whenever Israel followed after foreign gods... then the spirit of God would withdraw and they would be left on their own to suffer the consequences. And there were definitely numerous times when they took women as spoils of war and basically followed after the gods of those women. A lot of stories are allegories, serving as judgments against Israel. Now this story is also told in hindsight so the writer knows what's going to happen and tells us that Samson's parents resisted because they didn't know that God wanted Samson to end up where he does and for the story to unfold in the way it does. Samson's attraction to Philistine women is what puts a target on his back that they use greater and greater force to try and destroy him.

So now Samson and this woman are married... well... perhaps not fully. What happens next is basically his marriage feast which is basically the same as a wedding. It's attended by his people as well as philistine men. Different movies, taking artistic liscense, try to fill in the gap of how this came about but Samson ends up offering a riddle which was basically a high stakes bet. Maybe he was showing off. Whatever. But he tells this riddle that would almost certainly only make sense to him beceause of what he observed after killing the lion.

8 And after a time he returned to take her, and he turned aside to see the carcase of the lion: and, behold, there was a swarm of bees and honey in the carcase of the lion.

The philistines were at the deadline, 7 days, and still they didn't have an answer. So they went to his wife and threatened her and her father's house(family).

There appears to be an error here because the deadline was 7 days, they went to her on the 7th day, but verse 15 says she wept before Samson for the 7 days that the feast lasted.

He tells her the riddle and she tells the men and when they finally guess it he knows she could have only been the one to tell them. From there... it gets really violent. Samson goes and basically murders 30 people and took their stuff to exchange for the garments he needed to pay the philistine men he lost the bet to. By the time he gets back his wife was given away to his friend. So in other words, it wasn't consumated prior to the end of the feast. And... someone else "consumated" with her.

I have to show you this. It's extremely irreverent and should not be watched by anyone lacking a funny bone. But it's good and deals with some of the problems in the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRh7W-Bsg5g&list=PLcjtnTWUWiJP8B7lRJIL1xfWMYwjObC2g&index=21&t=0s

I am watching all 3 of these, crude yet funny and informational

One of the reasons I posted the comical video of the story is because it is sadly quite comical.

(we're now in chapter 15)

Samson was about to go have sex with his new wife but gets cock blocked by her dad. He had made a big scene after she told the philistines his secret so her dad figured he didn't want her anymore. And who can blame a father who sees something like that on his daughter's wedding day. I'm sure she would have seemed a lot safer with someone else; ANYONE...else.

And so in response to this man being worried about his daughter, who in turn only spilled the beans because she was worried about her father and family being murdered if she didn't, what does Samson do? Murder rampage.

First he basically blames all Philistines the same way people blame Mexicans and he rigs some crazy and outlandish Molotov cocktail using 300 fox tails still on the foxes and let them loose in the corn fields of the Philistines. So the Philistines, blaming him, go and kill the woman and her father. And so of course Samson murders them even though he is the singular cause of literally everything so far.

The Philistines come looking for some pay back and Samson rampages again, killing 1,000 men with the jawbone of a donkey. Then he got thirsty and God gave him some water out of a hollow place in the jaw.

(Chapter 16)

Samson sees a prostitute and has sex with her. Believe it or not I'm fairly sure prostitution was not only normal but overlooked by God's law. It was considered a shame for the woman but so much for the man. Perhaps not at all. This isn't the first story involving prostitution but remember Samson is a kind of priest who's not even allowed to consume fermented drinks. Again... male dominated society.

The people of the city (Gaza) at the point are aware of what he had done and were most likely trying to deliver him to the Philistines for judgment. I mean he's basically a mass murderer at this point, killing innocent people just to settle a bet. So they're like let's wait by the gate and kill him in the morning. In the middle of the night Samson runs away with the entire gate. #GazaGate

Once again, Samson sees a pretty foreign face and fell for her. This time it's Delilah. Philistine leaders basically offer her a bounty of eleven hundred pieces of silver... each. She asks. He lies. She asks. He lies. Finally he tells her the truth; that if his hair was cut he would be weak. Of course she tells the Philistine leaders. She gets him to fall asleep on her and she calls a guy to cut his hair. This time when she wakes him up he's weak and so he's captured by the Philistines who put out his eyes.

Beaten, Samson forced to work in the prison but one day there's a party and they bring Samson out to make fun of him. Of course by then his hair had started to grow back. In a final act of revenge Samson begs God to give him his strength one more time so he could avenge his two eyes that they put out. This must have been a huge party because he was able to bring down the house, literally, by pushing against the pillars holding up the roof so that it fell on everyone, and kill more people in this act than he had done during his life.

That is the story of Samson (and somewhere in there he judged Israel for 20 years).

Well I guess Israel didn't really do much to him..............that is interesting though that God decicded he did a good job of judging Israel enough to give him his strength for the final push. Rastafarians wear their hair then as a connection to Sampson?

Kobos wrote: Well I guess Israel didn't really do much to him..............that is interesting though that God decicded he did a good job of judging Israel enough to give him his strength for the final push. Rastafarians wear their hair then as a connection to Sampson?

well, not to Samson but rather the same priestly tradition. The Nazarite tradition was basically the only way you could be a priest outside of the lineage of Levi. This is also said of Jesus since he was of the tribe of Judah.

So, I'm curious: who's the figure you were discussing?

We were discussing the story of Sampson! Hopefully more to come, I would love to learn more of the stories of people from the bible, the stories of the people are quite interesting.

Much Love,
Kobos

I wanted to ask, I know the basic story of John the Baptist. I will take the time to read a bit of the bible about him here today well i am behind the counter of the liquor store that is my second job. But, I wanted to ask others their ideas about him, and any other figures people see as important or inspirational. Because end of the day I may not get the same meaning you read from the same text.

Much Love,
Kobos

So , Kobos - my wife had a co-worker ask a question and his answer was this - psalms and proverbs man, songs n stuff dude ! King David - there a solid figure in the Bible - dudes credited for writing a few books and creating a dynasty that lasted a pretty good chunk of time. The life of David from any seminary is pretty much a win for any Christian wanting to know their heritage. smiley face

I will have to look into David then also, I just am kinda taking a look at the things I never paid attention too. I don't think I will ever be a Christian but that doesn't mean the texts are not worth knowing.

Much Love.
Kobos

The all myth - all myths for every one !!

SO I was thinking like I said about John the Baptist. Here is why I like that story. The man didn't judge. He instead offered people to wash away their "sins" and let the retouch the spirit of God. He left God to be the judge picking no position of authority given by the self. He even did it to the person he "knew" was the direct descendant of God. He died, in a particularly brutal way in order to maintain this idea. I find this interesting because is this not a message from the bible. that we are not the judges, That the deity or conscious Force depending on your beliefs, that is the judge of all of Mankind. I find this very interesting.

Much Love,
Kobos

Don’t forget - I do often when reading the Bible, most scholars will agree - God didn't intend for his people to have Kings or judges at all. It was through the priest that everything should have began with but ... ya know man. Lol

Some figures are representations of what’s to come of has been done some are just wrath of God stuff quite literally. Some figures in the OT are for judging... some were for mercy.

Kobos wrote: SO I was thinking like I said about John the Baptist. Here is why I like that story. The man didn't judge. He instead offered people to wash away their "sins" and let the retouch the spirit of God. He left God to be the judge picking no position of authority given by the self. He even did it to the person he "knew" was the direct descendant of God. He died, in a particularly brutal way in order to maintain this idea. I find this interesting because is this not a message from the bible. that we are not the judges, That the deity or conscious Force depending on your beliefs, that is the judge of all of Mankind. I find this very interesting.

Much Love,
Kobos

I wouldn't say he didn't judge. John the Baptist, if I may, is a bit like how I view myself as a Jedi.

Matthew 14


John was a zealot. Him confronting Herod was not a private affair. Herod liked John but his wife considered it a public embarrassment.

In Matthew 3 John also goes after the Pharisees similar to how Yeshua (Jesus) will later.

sick burn:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

John the Baptist basically went after people in positions of power and judged them for the purpose of getting people to repent. He was very much like Yeshua in this way but a bit more brimstone and fire. John is a very good character with less moral ambiguity than a lot of other biblical figures.

ZealotX wrote:

Kobos wrote: SO I was thinking like I said about John the Baptist. Here is why I like that story. The man didn't judge. He instead offered people to wash away their "sins" and let the retouch the spirit of God. He left God to be the judge picking no position of authority given by the self. He even did it to the person he "knew" was the direct descendant of God. He died, in a particularly brutal way in order to maintain this idea. I find this interesting because is this not a message from the bible. that we are not the judges, That the deity or conscious Force depending on your beliefs, that is the judge of all of Mankind. I find this very interesting.

Much Love,
Kobos

I wouldn't say he didn't judge. John the Baptist, if I may, is a bit like how I view myself as a Jedi.

Matthew 14

Warning: Spoiler!

14 At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus,

2 And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him.

3 For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.

4 For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.

5 And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.

6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod.

7 Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask.

8 And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger.

John was a zealot. Him confronting Herod was not a private affair. Herod liked John but his wife considered it a public embarrassment.

In Matthew 3 John also goes after the Pharisees similar to how Yeshua (Jesus) will later.

sick burn:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

John the Baptist basically went after people in positions of power and judged them for the purpose of getting people to repent. He was very much like Yeshua in this way but a bit more brimstone and fire. John is a very good character with less moral ambiguity than a lot of other biblical figures.

My thoughts exactly. As it concerns the common man he wasn't a judge, but when it came to the ones in power, Herod and the Pharasees he didn't mince words.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Don’t forget - I do often when reading the Bible, most scholars will agree - God didn't intend for his people to have Kings or judges at all. It was through the priest that everything should have began with but ... ya know man. Lol

Some figures are representations of what’s to come of has been done some are just wrath of God stuff quite literally. Some figures in the OT are for judging... some were for mercy.

I don't think God originally intended for them to have kings or priests. Judges imho were different. The priesthood was only introduced post Exodus and basically quantified the distance between God and man; introduced more so as a "punishment". I think he would have preferred to lead through prophets only, with rabbis acting as educators. Anyone could be a 'priest' if they simply went through some kind of cleansing ritual involving asking forgiveness.

But truthfully, its a lot of legal mumbo jumbo I think designed to convince people that they couldn't go directly to God. If you think about the requirements for the priests and how they had to tie a rope around them to pull their dead body out of the most holy place if they messed up... I think this achieved the same thing as telling people not to go up on Mount Sinai otherwise the "holy ground" could kill them. In reality, I think this was done so that there would be no witnesses to what Moses was doing up there. And in the case of priests this was done so that the people would be under the belief that the job of the priest was so holy, difficult, and risky that they were performing an invaluable service. And therefore the people would bring their sacrifices to them (the priests). And that's part of what the priests lived off of; that and tithes.

So its kind of like the Vatican. There's a transfer of wealth that happens because people believe in God but don't believe that they can go to God directly. The church becomes the middle man and the middle man, unfortunately, always marks up the product. If their deity were more than a myth I would think he would have dealt more harshly with the priesthood class than he did against the Egyptians. Let's try to avoid talking about Moses in this thread though. Moses is one of the few subjects I have less ability to restrain myself on.

ZealotX wrote: I don't think God originally intended for them to have kings or priests. Judges imho were different.

But truthfully, its a lot of legal mumbo jumbo I think designed to convince people that they couldn't go directly to God.

Let's try to avoid talking about Moses in this thread though.

Yes, no, no. Kings were very reluctantly given to Israel by God. Priests existed since Exodus at least, but functionally the needs of a family and small nation are different. Judges didn't come around until much later than the priests, and were temporary positions for the most part (kinda like dictator for the Romans). So chronologically (and descending value): priests, judges, Kings (there's an argument to be made that prophets deserve a position up here as well)

Yes and no. Priests were to be consecrated in the literal sense, so they did nothing besides holy work. There are takes of priests abusing their power for personal gain (Eli et Al.) but those are always seen as evil and generally received justice.

Why can you decide for us to not talk about Moses? He's very relevant and has quite a bit of literature about him