Chapter One

I think that the section on Openmindedness and the true nature of faith mostly opened my eyes to the fact that most religions are in fact a dividing factor amongst Humanity. think about all the wars that were fought in the name of religion, The Crusades being one of them. the Knights templar fought just to preserve some rocks that they believed to be holy when the real church resided inside themselves.

It is a sad truth that religions in history have been a reason for mankind to war amongst themselves. It is also true that politics, classes, sexes, ethnic origins, countries, social classes, ideologies, even football clubs... have been reasons for mankind to have fought amongst themselves. A serious question to consider is it really the religion or is the problem to be found in man himself?

It is also worth a consideration that religions are mobilising a lot of aid for people in need, whose need for example has been caused by political ambitions. Through history mankind has also been able to socially organise himself with the help of religions. Again is it not left upto man whether he realises a make or break situation?

Both of you have equally good questions or even postulates. Let me see even another point of view rather than man himself or even religion or even politics, classes, or ethnicity let maybe, just maybe it is the lust or greed for power and wealth over others that led each and every one of these to their evil deeds.

Well even since the earliest man walked the earth there has always been a need for violence and fighting. Just to survive so i believe it has just become instinct to quarrel to feel that u have done something to defend yourself in one way or another. According to the text in the Chapter.

What i got from this chapter is, the human race has been on a downward spiral to Virtuous and Morality destruction. If you think me wrong then go to a Elementary school here in Southern California. I was outside last year after a family moved in with children down the street (i add that they are black simply to add detail to the story), a brother and sister were walking. Sister older brother younger, the girl was slightly ahead and not paying any attention to her surrounding. The boy was behind her yelling profanities at her, he couldn't have been past 8 years old. I spoke to another local boy just a few houses down from me, he goes to the same school as most of the kids in my area and he even said that kids these days are bad (i thought it was cute that he spoke of his peers as \"kids\"), his father raised him very well and i can't say all children are this bad but mankinds (or at least americas) past has left a tragic mark on the youth of today and of future generations. There is not much i can do about it as none of us can raise other peoples children for them but i feel it was relevant to the chapter, speaking of the present and future of this once great nation and more importantly the people there in. IMO religion is the only taught to these children and wrongly so. It is the only thing they are willing to listen to because it is somewhat important to their parents. But more often then not it is taken in the wrong context as the Bible has been, as it says in the Chapter, perhaps The Bible should be removed for a few hundred or thousand years as to be read again by unbiased eyes. And i trully love the story of God being in everyone. I do not really believe in any deity, i believe, currently, in the Tao/Chi/Force. It is far more simpler for me to believe in this energy then to believe there is a being conducting the universe.

May The Force Be With You

What we have to understand about religions wars throughout time, is the people with the power made the bad decision. Soldiers on the front lines still had their doubts as to if they were doing the right thing, but when the generals say 'die', soldiers say 'yes,sir.'

First off, I have to admit that I have not read any of the other reviews (yet). Only, because I wanted to know how my very own thoughts differ from everyone else’s. And should I read them beforehand, obviously the line would get blurred.

One sentence that struck me as odd was: “They would read it and be done with it, for if it were well and clearly written they would not have to go back to it again and again for hidden meanings or for clarification of obscure doctrines.”

However, in the whole of the first chapter he tells us how we are split in two, we are no longer seeing us as part of nature, but that we have to conquer nature, how we have lost a significant part of us, the connection between us and others, between us and nature, us and the universe, if you will. That leads me to suspect that I will read this book more than once, not for any hidden meaning, but to remind myself of ideas greater than found in everyday life.

I do like the idea that he does not want us (the readers) to search for hidden meaning though. That he sees his work as a “point of departure”. That basically he wants to start us on a journey that we have to find answers ourselves.

So, he starts out by defining two taboos, sex and religion. He also says that religion in its current form does not provide answers to our most profound questions (e.g. what is the meaning of life). His statement that “the book I am thinking about would not be religious in the usual sense” (meaning his book) might then entice more people to read his book, think about it. Since we don’t like to talk about taboos his book would not be a taboo, therefore we would not feel apprehension while reading it (otherwise, some might feel like traitors to their faith).

A main part of the chapter is devoted to the explanation of our division (between ego and body) in different ways. This part resonated with me. I always felt that there is more … more connection between people/nature/things.

He also tells us how he will be explaining his thoughts and ideas. That describing this connection in words alone would be impossible, that there will be a need for myth, to speak through images and stories. He also warns us not to take the myth for fact, that it is merely “a useful and fruitful image by which we make sense of life”. So I will try to keep that in mind while reading.

All in all, a very intriguing start to a book.

PS: I am also reading Joseph Campbell’s “The Power of Myth”. I hope I won’t be confusing the ideas in the books.

PPS: Religion is a dividing factor between people, historically churches instigated the crusades, so they teach us to love each other but then they use the \"religious\" argument to start a war... However, it is man who decides to go to war... Although, if a supposedly trustworthy institution tells us that it is good, then what are we to believe... I am on the fence on this issue (but I don't like the pope saying that only the Catholic faith will open the gates to heaven, I mean, isn't that splitting people up, instead of realising how we are similar?)

What did I make of this book? Well first off I found that Alan Watts states clearly that people are split into two. And to find and understand everything around us we must first understand ourselves. For we are part of it all.

He tells us that the human race is self centered and we concentrate on our egos and separate ourselves into different groups. Instead he says that we should understand ourselves, and know that we are a part of everything.

In a way the God he talks about is the Force. That energy that is in us connects us to everyone else and first we must be able to know ourselves and our Force before we can understand other people.


May The Force Be With You Always

\"The compulsion to take ourselves seriously is in inverse proportion to our creative capacity. When the creative flow dies up, all we have left is our importance.\"

Eric Hoffer

How true all of this is, that faith can reside in ones self and that if you are not forced to the water at the well you will sooner or later thirst for that water and lead your self to it on your own terms.
\"Do not underestimate good, thinking it will not affect you. Dripping water can filla pitcher, drop by drop,one who is wise is filled with good even if one accumulates it little by little.\"
Buddha
Dhammapada9.7
MTFBWY

First I would like to comment on religions and the divides, wars ect. that they have, as a whole, brought about. Religion is a meme-plex, a collection of memes (which is a contagious information pattern). Every religion, at some point in time of its history, has been either auto-toxic ( Jonestown, \"martyr\" syndrome), exo-toxic (Crusades, the inquisition) or both. Thankfully one of two things have happened, these religions have decided to include tolerance into their meme-plex or society has become immune to the more radical memes involved.

Regardless one has to look at the good and the bad of all situations and while religion has been decisive it has also been beneficial to many societies and people. Plus we have to remember many religious texts are passed down from a deity, to humans, who then translate it to paper. It is perfectly reasonable to think that there is a chance that said humans were ignorant to the message, made some flaws (we all do) or twisted the message to fit their own agenda. So responsibility for the divisions and wars goes to the individuals, organizations and possibly texts involved.

On to other things, the idea of \"self\" and \"other\" resonates strongly. I believe there is no reason to have to reconcile the \"individual\" and the \"collective\". Take a tree for example, the leaves on the tree from a passing gaze seem very similar and they do in fact share many qualities but on closer inspection they all have differences, some subtle, others not so much. They are unique and individual, yet at the same time a part of a whole that is the tree.

And as far as being connected to the universe, well it is scientifically sound. All of the heavy elements, for instance iron in our blood, is for lack of a better word...stardust. So technically the iron in the human blood stream originated in some star that went supernova as the dawn of the universe.

All in all is was a good read, I look forward to the next chapter...tomorrow...after sleep.

Now that was a good read. Considering how long it took us to be born if you trace it back to the stars is ... neat.

A+

Thankee Sai

Br. John+

mandoade wrote:
On to other things, the idea of \"self\" and \"other\" resonates strongly. I believe there is no reason to have to reconcile the \"individual\" and the \"collective\". Take a tree for example, the leaves on the tree from a passing gaze seem very similar and they do in fact share many qualities but on closer inspection they all have differences, some subtle, others not so much. They are unique and individual, yet at the same time a part of a whole that is the tree.

I love your image of the tree and I find it astonishing how Mr. Watts puts into words (seemingly easily) what I have felt for so long. Of course, having survived a couple of blizzards this past winter we could also talk about snowflakes...

Ok, so i had to reread this chapter a couple times.

We are all the same and different. I am a human being like everyone else on the planet this connects me to the collective group of humanity, I am a teacher, medic, father, and many other things. there are things about myself i find unique. However, I believe that the connection between us all is that we are all human beings and our individual abilities and characteristics make us better able live.

The best way i can explain it simply is a web. Each strand looking the same but is in reality different in many ways. However, the strands all connect and support each other providing a common link.

I found it most interesting how he discusses that self realization is the new taboo which I agree with completely now that iv sat back for a few hours and thought about it. Very few people actually look into themselves, I hear people talk about finding their unique purpose in life or religions saying that the purpose of every person is to love \"god\". When the truth is that each person is their own reason and they can do what ever they want and are slaves to person or thing. There are people that have scared themselves, bleed and died in the name of a god. They are like pieces of paper floating in the wind, fluttering about with no particular path or reason except to be guided by some force that they have faith in.

The Asian religions that he discusses are beautiful in their complexity and views. what is interesting is how all or most old religions personify almost every aspect of their belief system such as Shiva.

I have only begun to look into jediism but I'm really beginning to like it because rather than saying \"here are all the answers to your questions in this book\" like many religions it seems that the core message of the Jedi is \"come along with us so that we may find peace with ourselves and this universe.

I'm hoping to complete all the chapters and then seek out a Master that will help me on this path of self discovery.

Derc Denolo wrote:

I found it most interesting how he discusses that self realization is the new taboo which I agree with completely now that iv sat back for a few hours and thought about it. Very few people actually look into themselves, I hear people talk about finding their unique purpose in life or religions saying that the purpose of every person is to love \"god\". When the truth is that each person is their own reason and they can do what ever they want and are slaves to person or thing. There are people that have scared themselves, bleed and died in the name of a god. They are like pieces of paper floating in the wind, fluttering about with no particular path or reason except to be guided by some force that they have faith in.

The Asian religions that he discusses are beautiful in their complexity and views. what is interesting is how all or most old religions personify almost every aspect of their belief system such as Shiva.

I have only begun to look into jediism but I'm really beginning to like it because rather than saying \"here are all the answers to your questions in this book\" like many religions it seems that the core message of the Jedi is \"come along with us so that we may find peace with ourselves and this universe.

I'm hoping to complete all the chapters and then seek out a Master that will help me on this path of self discovery.

You are off to a good start. I'm not looking for you to agree with everything Watts says, although you might, but to see your understanding of the material and a defense of your position.

A+

MTFBWY,

M (Br. John+) Instructor

p.s. Jediism not jediismB)

Ahhh, I remember these...

I shall review and jump in where I left off...somewhere around chapter 3 or so.

Hmm. Deep reading there. Kind of confusing. This isn't a book report is it? I ask because I'm not sure that I caught exactly what he was throwing. But I certainly DID develop a line of thinking while I read it. Here it is in a nutshell, I have nothing to fear:

Mankind, as a whole has areas of topic which we historically just don't discuss with others. Can't say I'd be too comfortable giving sex tips to my daughters, Nor would I ever deal in absolutes such as saying, \"We are Christian, because I'm the Father. And God is the almighty.\"

It seems to me that he is calling for a review of religion. As in, the old \"If it ain't broke, don't fix it.\" attitude toward religion is outdated. e.g. Many old religions used sacrifices and rituals to appeal to the Gods for rain. In today's culture, science has proven why it rains, and we can reasonably predict it without dancing in special garb, or murder virgins, first born children, etc. for it to happen.

In faith, we believe in the unknown. But why should we believe in something simply because millions of others have? We are able to think for ourselves. We should make the most of our lives and do what we can to better it for ourselves and others on our own accord.

I did find this to be a good read in that it does make one think. I very much liked the eyes trying to look directly at themselves. I feel this sometimes in myself, that I am trying to see myself thru myself, Or even in spite of myself. I believe there is a connection between all things and this chapter does touch on this a little. It tends to lead toward all one thing is the same but individual. If this is so then it leads to all individual things are the same one thing, human, tree or bacteria. I see how this could be but I also see how everything could be just connected but not same, as in the hand is not the human but a part of, the same is true of the human and tree are part of but not the universe.

Finding the root of man's fighting with each other, is a touchy issue.

I have come to the conclusion, that it is about people as a whole having so many differences. Many of us want our differences to be reconized, and some people think they should deserve special treatment because of their differences. Religion is one of those differences. We all know the havoc religion has caused upon man, as well as the good things. And it is so easy to say \"We should look past our differences\". To what though? Some people think we need a common goal, to unite upon.

I can only repeat a quote I once read in a book about love. And it states

\"Love is not so much two people looking each other in the eyes, but to people looking forward together in the same direcection.\"

Hopefully the force can give us all direction.

Alasias Link Moonwalker