what is the point???

I fail to see in the grand scheme of things, how it really matters.

We die. All of us will die, without exception.

Does it matter if its from war, disease, age, predators, or any other cause? I mean, I really struggle with this, because even if we eliminate war, we will just kill ourselves out even faster through overpopulation and destruction of our natural environment.

I see war as the only measurable form of population control we currently posses.

I know its harsh and cruel, but I yet to see a more effective solution.

this is imo such an important idea that i felt it needs a thread

i can share the answer that i myself use

this is not "my" answer- people smarter and more experienced than me, all the way back to at least a guy named sidartha and right to one named prof. peterson, have all contributed to this answer

i maybe have my own spin on it, but its sort of -- bigger than me, and probably more than anything i could have come up with on my own

and i may not really do it justice either lol but i want to try

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if there is or isnt an answer - both possibilities are equally beyond our biological limitations as human beings to understand

we are not equipped to acknowledge the full scope of existence: the universe, the multiverse, the omniverse, whatever
itss bigger than our brains can handle, and the complexities involved are beyond us - period

you can argue that maybe one day science will tell us everything there is to know - but that day isnt today and in any event that argument is a leap of faith whichever side you pick

i want to emphasize that we cannot know, because people often take this as proof that there is no "point" or "meaning" or "value" and once that assumption has been accepted, from there one will naturally, as you say "fail to see in the grand scheme of things, how it really matters."

so ok, we cant prove that it matters, but ITS HERE, and we cant prove that it DOESNT matter either, so MAYBE it does

really

thats a real possibility too

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the first noble truth of buddhism is that life is suffering

you have to accept this truth right off the bat

we are vulnerable, and we suffer unfairly and we die prematurely and its always been that way and it may always be that way

that reality has just got to be accepted

a thousand different things in nature are potentially trying to kill us right this instant - random freak accidents, venomous creatures, parasites and bacteria and viruses and vermin which spread disease.
lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) and all the native predators of -- wherever you are right now
natural forces of volcanoes and earthquakes and climate change and lightening bolts

and then there is the reality that the most dangerous predator on earth is ourselves - and there is no shortage of incidences of the savagery we inflict on one another

and nothing is fair - some people obviously get a better deal than others, and A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE, especially if you want to look at our entire genetic and cultural history, have a really lousy deal

but look at what we've done!

monkeys living in the trees, jumping at the sound of thunder, have managed to build a society that keeps all of that complexity at bay long enough for the internet to emerge!

long enough for literature and architecture and music and mechanics - long enough to find activities that affirm the essential dignity of the human, and the basic GOODNESS of being alive - at least the potential it has for goodness

we can love and we can laugh

thats a really big deal

look, our heritage goes all the way back to the birth of the universe

as individuals we die, yes and all the waves of the ocean vanish in an instant

but we are the current waves of an ocean that goes back over 13 BILLION years

its incomprehensible how long that is, and we are a link in that chain or a thread in that web

in us is embodied 13 billion years worth of Life's desire to flourish in the face of statistically insurmountable odds - there is no way we should be here, but BAM here we are

and whatever time we have, is our individual moment to make just a tiny little imprint - i tiny little ripple - that maybe seems insignificant if you look at it from the perspective of being recognized or "important" in the "grand scheme of things" but is hugely and immeasurably valuable if you understand it like this:

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imagine some show is being performed somewhere and suddenly everything stops - the spotlight shines on some random kid in the audience and now theres no stage, no show, nothing but this kid, there, in the light, and someone says "sing"

all the fear and all the hesitancy and all the danger of failure and incompetence are all staring us in the face right now and forever

but i imagine that kid sings, honestly, not with fear, not with hubris or ego, but with dignity

not worrying about being judged, or important, or even about being "good"

only focused on singing clearly, and with sincerity

to use the moment and let the best of whats inside, come out

in my opinion, THAT is the point

I think this could have been better communicated through a PM, especially if the point was directed at a post of mine.

EDIT:

Also, TLDR

i wasnt being critical

and i didnt identify you because it was the idea i was responding to

youre not the first or last person in the world to have that idea

and PM wouldnt have changed the word count - if its too much its too much

at least this way SOMEONE will read it lol

what rationale did you think had loopholes in logic in the war - ends is unable to justify the means thread, OB1Shinobi?

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Entropist wrote: what rationale did you think had loopholes in logic in the war - ends is unable to justify the means thread, OB1Shinobi?

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it wasnt really that - the idea Kohadre expressed (not the "population control" part, the nihilism part) is a real existential concern: its a valid question and a tough one and imo its also an important one to get right, collectively speaking

and by "right" i mean that we find an answer that doesnt justify mass extermination

and so i wanted to respond because i think its important, but its off topic (to that thread) so i started it here

and what i said above is at least a big part of the best answer i have so far

the means of death is very relevant to the war - ends is unable to justify the means thread. and the best answer you have so far still has the ends justifies the means principle underpinning

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may I ask how has your experience in research of alternative means to address population control been, OB1Shinobi?

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im not actually talking about war, or about population control

i am talking about a (tentative) response to nihilism, and a potential (beginning of an) answer to the question "whats the point?"

What's the point? Like there is an intelligent conscientiousness behind all this? Who the hell knows!? When will we?

I don't know. but until humans as a species rises to a higher level of awareness our problems/challenges will not be any different than they were thousands of years ago and we, the group we, grow and evolve so very slowly.

My step father once said something to me that I found so incredibly insightful that it rendered me speechless... something that does NOT happen often.

"Life has only as much meaning as you give it"