- Posts: 538
Discrimination
12 Dec 2015 15:16 #213024
by
Discrimination was created by
Currently in my town it has happened a movement of black people fighting for their rights. There are some physical movements and within social networks and even in some university. Months ago we were fighting for the rights of homosexuals and transsexuals. So we follow the struggle of some people and not all.
Unfortunately I'm in a delicate position, I am a man, white and straight; do not understand what is being a woman, homosexual, transsexual, or black. When I speak my opinion someone answer me: "you do not fit in the cause, do not understand our pain.". Are we not all humans? By chance, simply because I'm not discriminated, my position can not be uphold justice?
What I think is simple. We do not fight for the right of some, we must fight for the right of all. Make a law "On homosexual is given the right to free sexual expression." For what? It would be better "to all human beings is given the right to free sexual expression"; It is not much more comprehensive?
I find shameful that in the present historical period we live in, we can not see everyone as an humans independent of sex, sexual orientation, Ethnicity and so many more. Humans are independent of their human qualities. That's what I'd like to share with you today.
Unfortunately I'm in a delicate position, I am a man, white and straight; do not understand what is being a woman, homosexual, transsexual, or black. When I speak my opinion someone answer me: "you do not fit in the cause, do not understand our pain.". Are we not all humans? By chance, simply because I'm not discriminated, my position can not be uphold justice?
What I think is simple. We do not fight for the right of some, we must fight for the right of all. Make a law "On homosexual is given the right to free sexual expression." For what? It would be better "to all human beings is given the right to free sexual expression"; It is not much more comprehensive?
I find shameful that in the present historical period we live in, we can not see everyone as an humans independent of sex, sexual orientation, Ethnicity and so many more. Humans are independent of their human qualities. That's what I'd like to share with you today.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
12 Dec 2015 17:50 #213032
by Yugen
TOTJO Novice
Yugen (幽玄): is said to mean “a profound, mysterious sense of the beauty of the universe… and the sad beauty of human suffering”
IP Journal
Replied by Yugen on topic Discrimination
This is sadly what many people think, just since your of a special gender/skin colour you can't fight for the rights of others.
But i agree with you, we are all humans, Namaste you know.
But i agree with you, we are all humans, Namaste you know.
TOTJO Novice
Yugen (幽玄): is said to mean “a profound, mysterious sense of the beauty of the universe… and the sad beauty of human suffering”
IP Journal
Please Log in to join the conversation.
12 Dec 2015 18:35 #213038
by
Replied by on topic Discrimination
I'm also white, cisgendered, straight, etc. Born into an upper middle-class family, I come from a position of great privilege. Of course this gives me less "street cred" in fighting oppression.
My feelings are simple: so what? It's not important to me if some people say I don't "fit in" to their cause. What is important is to simply do good despite that. And whenever I have succeeded, I've always found that my race, my gender identity, sexual orientation and all those other factors fall by the wayside. Whatever small acts of "discrimination" I might face as an activist pale in comparison to the discrimination faced by the people we fight for.
Only once in the years I was involved in activism did someone seriously suggest the circumstances of my birth and upbringing invalidated any work I did to achieve social justice. It didn't deter me - my priorities rest in a different place (and as I expected, when I helped achieve positive change, that person had a different view.) The world is broken. Focusing on that, and repairing that brokenness, is what's really important to me.
My feelings are simple: so what? It's not important to me if some people say I don't "fit in" to their cause. What is important is to simply do good despite that. And whenever I have succeeded, I've always found that my race, my gender identity, sexual orientation and all those other factors fall by the wayside. Whatever small acts of "discrimination" I might face as an activist pale in comparison to the discrimination faced by the people we fight for.
Only once in the years I was involved in activism did someone seriously suggest the circumstances of my birth and upbringing invalidated any work I did to achieve social justice. It didn't deter me - my priorities rest in a different place (and as I expected, when I helped achieve positive change, that person had a different view.) The world is broken. Focusing on that, and repairing that brokenness, is what's really important to me.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
12 Dec 2015 21:41 #213072
by Locksley
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away. -- J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5
Replied by Locksley on topic Discrimination
More often than not I find that people welcome support, I've never had an issue in-person with trying to support any of these causes.
And yes - it should be that all humans have these rights, but there are very specific movements of aggression against many specific groups, and I don't think it's 'bad' to work to undermine those aggressive groups directly. Black Lives Matter - for instance - doesn't suggest that only black lives matter, it suggests that there is a systemic issue that is specific to a certain racial background, and it attempts to meet that issue head on.
At any rate, I'm not going to let someone stop me from working to make the world a better place because they feel I don't fit with the demographic of 'their people'. That sort of exclusionist attitude is only harmful, and if everyone who wanted to make some sort of change listened to people who said things like that, there'd never be any change at all.
If I wanted to get involved in local communities and found that sort of attitude coming up a lot, I'd go ahead and start asking what they wanted me to do, and what help they thought I could offer. I'd also look for individuals and groups comprised of the people being discriminated against, who openly welcome your support - and work as closely with them as possible.
And yes - it should be that all humans have these rights, but there are very specific movements of aggression against many specific groups, and I don't think it's 'bad' to work to undermine those aggressive groups directly. Black Lives Matter - for instance - doesn't suggest that only black lives matter, it suggests that there is a systemic issue that is specific to a certain racial background, and it attempts to meet that issue head on.
At any rate, I'm not going to let someone stop me from working to make the world a better place because they feel I don't fit with the demographic of 'their people'. That sort of exclusionist attitude is only harmful, and if everyone who wanted to make some sort of change listened to people who said things like that, there'd never be any change at all.
If I wanted to get involved in local communities and found that sort of attitude coming up a lot, I'd go ahead and start asking what they wanted me to do, and what help they thought I could offer. I'd also look for individuals and groups comprised of the people being discriminated against, who openly welcome your support - and work as closely with them as possible.
We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away. -- J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5
Please Log in to join the conversation.
12 Dec 2015 22:01 #213076
by Yugen
TOTJO Novice
Yugen (幽玄): is said to mean “a profound, mysterious sense of the beauty of the universe… and the sad beauty of human suffering”
IP Journal
Replied by Yugen on topic Discrimination
My personal opinion is that there will always be people that dosen't want your help.
The reason may be who you are or what you are, maybe they are just afraid to accept help from you becouse they have been betrayed so many times.
The thing that matters is that you try to help, that is the golden act, to try.
Maybe they don't accept your help, and that's how it is.
I understand that people that feel oppressed can often find someone to blame their misery upon, (only an example) and since certain problems involve white people (men mainly) getting an advantage in for example companies then they use the argument "white PEOPLE" instead of pointing out the problem, the problem isn't white people, it's companies separating people due to skincolour/gender etc. And the instead of blaming an entire people wich will get us no-where we should bring up the fact that sometimes people are treated diffrent due to who they are, this will always be a fact though, nobody will be exactly equal, someone will always have an advantage, but what we can do is to decrease this.
The reason may be who you are or what you are, maybe they are just afraid to accept help from you becouse they have been betrayed so many times.
The thing that matters is that you try to help, that is the golden act, to try.
Maybe they don't accept your help, and that's how it is.
I understand that people that feel oppressed can often find someone to blame their misery upon, (only an example) and since certain problems involve white people (men mainly) getting an advantage in for example companies then they use the argument "white PEOPLE" instead of pointing out the problem, the problem isn't white people, it's companies separating people due to skincolour/gender etc. And the instead of blaming an entire people wich will get us no-where we should bring up the fact that sometimes people are treated diffrent due to who they are, this will always be a fact though, nobody will be exactly equal, someone will always have an advantage, but what we can do is to decrease this.
TOTJO Novice
Yugen (幽玄): is said to mean “a profound, mysterious sense of the beauty of the universe… and the sad beauty of human suffering”
IP Journal
Please Log in to join the conversation.
12 Dec 2015 22:03 #213077
by
Replied by on topic Discrimination
Your story and questions are well said, I think the problem is that people who have not lived certain experiences don't know how to fight for the rights of said individuals. Yes, we're all humans, but if we were all the same we wouldn't be fighting for the rights of certain people-groups.
I will say that while I'm growing and learning how to bring cisgender people into the fight, the struggle for justice for transgender people; there are times when I feel like cisgender people do more harm than good regardless of how well-intentioned it may be. So, there are times when I want to work exclusively with other trans people (for example, I do not want cisgender people to answer the suicide hotline designed specifically for transgender people), but on other things I feel like cisgender people can really be an asset if they're committed to helping (i.e. pushing for transgender access to adequate and affordable healthcare, access to the bathrooms of person's gender identity, destroying the trans panic defense laws, etc).
I can't say for certain this is what is happening in your case, but from what you've described I would imagine the circumstances are similar. Keep in mind that some people are better at bringing in allies to help them than others. Some groups want to only work with people like them and I don't really blame them, but as I've learned, I think it makes it harder on themselves.
I will say that while I'm growing and learning how to bring cisgender people into the fight, the struggle for justice for transgender people; there are times when I feel like cisgender people do more harm than good regardless of how well-intentioned it may be. So, there are times when I want to work exclusively with other trans people (for example, I do not want cisgender people to answer the suicide hotline designed specifically for transgender people), but on other things I feel like cisgender people can really be an asset if they're committed to helping (i.e. pushing for transgender access to adequate and affordable healthcare, access to the bathrooms of person's gender identity, destroying the trans panic defense laws, etc).
I can't say for certain this is what is happening in your case, but from what you've described I would imagine the circumstances are similar. Keep in mind that some people are better at bringing in allies to help them than others. Some groups want to only work with people like them and I don't really blame them, but as I've learned, I think it makes it harder on themselves.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
12 Dec 2015 23:47 - 12 Dec 2015 23:53 #213090
by Edan
It won't let me have a blank signature ...
Replied by Edan on topic Discrimination
I had a discussion with someone from here once about being treated differently because of one aspect of who he was... I said I couldn't possibly understand how he felt from the way he had been treated... he said I could understand because of the way I had been treated over something else... Even though we may not all have experience of one thing... there are aspects of how we are treated that are similar, even if the reason why we are being treated that way is different.
Sometimes, I think that people close up and say 'you don't get it'... when actually others might.. even if the direct experience is not the same.
In reality, the important thing is education... to cut off others and say 'sorry but you don't get it' for some fights only seeks to increase the barrier between two groups of people and undermines any attempt you make for equality or better treatment.
You should say instead 'this is how I'm feeling', or 'this is what is happening'.. and then people can understand more fully what is going on.
For example... my own experience here... (I'm not picking on you Jamie here, just the word)... I used to dislike the word 'cisgender' because one day I woke up and, having never heard it before, someone used it to describe in a conversation what I am (what they think I am, which, incidentally, isn't necessarily what I am)... I was like 'what the hell is this word you've decided to stick to me'? The person didn't get why that bothered me... no education.. and perhaps, no understanding on their part.. especially when they were using it in a pretty negative fashion.
So, in fact, education is a two way thing...
Sometimes, I think that people close up and say 'you don't get it'... when actually others might.. even if the direct experience is not the same.
In reality, the important thing is education... to cut off others and say 'sorry but you don't get it' for some fights only seeks to increase the barrier between two groups of people and undermines any attempt you make for equality or better treatment.
You should say instead 'this is how I'm feeling', or 'this is what is happening'.. and then people can understand more fully what is going on.
For example... my own experience here... (I'm not picking on you Jamie here, just the word)... I used to dislike the word 'cisgender' because one day I woke up and, having never heard it before, someone used it to describe in a conversation what I am (what they think I am, which, incidentally, isn't necessarily what I am)... I was like 'what the hell is this word you've decided to stick to me'? The person didn't get why that bothered me... no education.. and perhaps, no understanding on their part.. especially when they were using it in a pretty negative fashion.
So, in fact, education is a two way thing...
It won't let me have a blank signature ...
Last edit: 12 Dec 2015 23:53 by Edan.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
13 Dec 2015 03:21 #213112
by
Replied by on topic Discrimination
I don't fit in any of the groups listed above, but I've got friends who do. I hate seeing people bullying them or the ideas/lifestyles/situations they have. Even though I don't fit into their groups, I know what it's like to be an outsider, since I literally had no friends from 7th grade until my senior year. The only time people paid any attention to me was to make fun of me for no reason other than I was shuffled into a class with unfamiliar students who mainly new each other from others schools and I was the outsider.
When I see things like this happening I will do my best to at least educate and bring at least a realization to those making the insults that it is PEOPLE they are bullying, with emotions, dreams, and hopes, just like they have. People seem to forget that, especially when there are no people of those groups in their circle of friends.
I do agree with Edan--only through education, and therefore understanding and compassion, can we really understand what our neighbors are going through. Even if a group doesn't want help to fight for their cause, it would most likely benefit them to have an educational discussion and politely decline the help, rather than alienating potential friends or allies.
When I see things like this happening I will do my best to at least educate and bring at least a realization to those making the insults that it is PEOPLE they are bullying, with emotions, dreams, and hopes, just like they have. People seem to forget that, especially when there are no people of those groups in their circle of friends.
I do agree with Edan--only through education, and therefore understanding and compassion, can we really understand what our neighbors are going through. Even if a group doesn't want help to fight for their cause, it would most likely benefit them to have an educational discussion and politely decline the help, rather than alienating potential friends or allies.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
13 Dec 2015 19:25 #213164
by
Replied by on topic Discrimination
I echo what I'm perceiving as the underlying theme here - we are in essence all the same, and really can't afford to toss aside well-intended support because of perceived differences.
I do not know, firsthand, what it is to experience a chronic lack of water. I haven't lived the experience of an African-American who is constantly rejected for employment despite being skilled, or who is regularly hassled by police just because of color. My experience doesn't match that of a Syrian refugee trying even now to find a safe home. I haven't experienced anxiety at visiting a place of worship that is regrettably becoming increasingly common among Western Muslims. I haven't known the sting of being an openly-transgendered person nearly threatened with arrest just for having passed through an unsavory part of town (though I've met someone who has).
But I have known pain, loss, inequity, and fear of different sorts - as we all have. That's enough, IMHO, to bind us together in mutual support.
I do not know, firsthand, what it is to experience a chronic lack of water. I haven't lived the experience of an African-American who is constantly rejected for employment despite being skilled, or who is regularly hassled by police just because of color. My experience doesn't match that of a Syrian refugee trying even now to find a safe home. I haven't experienced anxiety at visiting a place of worship that is regrettably becoming increasingly common among Western Muslims. I haven't known the sting of being an openly-transgendered person nearly threatened with arrest just for having passed through an unsavory part of town (though I've met someone who has).
But I have known pain, loss, inequity, and fear of different sorts - as we all have. That's enough, IMHO, to bind us together in mutual support.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Carlos.Martinez3
-
- Offline
- Master
-
- Council Member
-
- Senior Ordained Clergy Person
-
Less
More
- Posts: 7987
13 Dec 2015 20:11 #213171
by Carlos.Martinez3
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Discrimination
Discrimination is ugly thing to me. I found a grand solution for this monster. Hope this helps. In my life, I often identify things. Discrimination is no stranger. When identified, I say...theres hate, theres subtraction, lets add ... compliments and accolades stream every one near. Building up instead of tearing down is a wonderful sword and shield. I often am saddened at people who tell me "no one ever tell me me im wonderful" I WILL BE THE CHANGE. I chink the proverbial rock and hard place and build good, or at least try. 7 times out of 10 I get a look like im flirting or the compliments are un welcomed , but later in time people respond to it. That's how we rid ourselfs of things like this. One person at a time. Hope that helped
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
The following user(s) said Thank You: ,
Please Log in to join the conversation.