Sithism

I found this topic rather fascinating, and I think that if we are to know ourselves we must know our counterparts as well. The ying and the yang in balance. It is through comparison that we gain a true understanding on the context. I have not studied the Sith extensively except in popular video game culture, so I will do some of my own research on Sithism in the future so that I may better understand it from an observer's point of view.

What I do understand about the philosophy, and this correlates with Vesha's post, is that the Sith are trying to direct their passions. Using the Ego, they are self assured, confident, and deadly masters in their chosen craft or profession. This could range from a boxer to a businessman. Unlike Jedi, they seem to be willing to make calculated sacrifices to achieve goals. This doesnt have to be through death, though it could be. It could also be a sacrifice of friendships, or morality, or materials to grant victory.

I play Chess so I need to make a metaphor. The Sith are Garry Kasparov and the Jedi are Anatoly Karpov. Both can be decisive in action, but the means through which they achieve results differs greatly.

If I may make a suggestion Radar, the TOTJO has a rather decent library from which to draw inspiration and reference from both paths, less Sithism more Jediism (easily understood of course why that is). There are a few books within our library that you may wish to pay special attention to when doing your research; the Grand Book of the Sith and the Jedi Holocron are good to start out with from the force perspective, (the latter including Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power). I would round out a study on Modern Sithism with the Book of Five Rings by Myamoto Musashi, the Art of War by Sun Tzu, the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey, the Will to Power by Friedrich Nietzsche, the Virtue of Selfishness by Ayan Rand and the Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli. The last two books I have on dropbox, pm me if you are interested in reading them.

Ive criss-crossed the line between the classic light/dark, jedi/sith a few times in my life...

Basically, like any fiction, take it with a grain of salt...

I'm sorry I think this dark/light jedi/sith stuff is crapolla. We all have a light and dark side equally. What you choose to believe and act upon is...well your choice but in the big picture and the long run...it's all about the Ying and the Yang, balance baby.

I have a dark side. I know it can be energizing and make me feel powerfull. I also know it's draining and distructive. I choose light and positive while acknowledging the dark. To ignor the dark is folly. To go to extreems either way if folly as well and can be equally distructive.

What is important to me is I try to do the right things and when I don't I forgive myself and go on, hopefully better for the experance. Light/dark, right/wrong, cold/hot , sky/earth, that's not what is important. What is important is what you do with what you got!

I am now stepping off the soap box.

Peace

we have several hundred million years of physiological history hardwired into our dna

the reason that the ideals of being unselfish, honest, courageous, generous, forgiving, loyal, humble and basically the different ideas which work together to make up the overall concept of NOBLE are valued and praised across the board by all cultures everywhere under every form of social organization from tribes to empires, is because they work

they are healthy
and they bring strength and prosperity to individuals and to communities and to nations

the opposing attributes of selfishness, manipulation, slyness, fearfulness, resentment and revenge, contemptuousness, arrogance

these are all seen as weaknesses and as obstacles to personal development and to societal advancement

theyre unhealthy
they create hell

its not an issue of being goody goody babies with no sense of self worth - its actually the opposite - people who identify with the first set of principles and actually make real effort to live by them, develop as a general rule, a much more resilient and effective sense of their own worth than those who focus on the second set

they also tend to do much better socially in every way - although admittedly POLITICS is an area that needs constant citizen monitoring and participation otherwise the rats take over - which to a great extent they have, especially lately - but even so, in the final analysis, representative governments, genuinely devoted to the representation of the people and the well being of the nation as a whole (in other words, honest and uselfish representation) always produces healthier and more effective societies than any other type of social organization

its a pretty simple formula really

freedom is a basic human demand - a life demand

all things feel themselves to be inherently free within the contexts of their existence (paradoxical in a way but still true)

we all know we should be allowed to live and pursue our own betterment and for the most part by our own judgement/without excessive regulation on our own personal decisions

freedom

this has always been a basic demand of individuals even when it wasnt precisely articulated as such

but the more the people are free the more power theyre going to have

so a society of selfish, cowardly people who manipulate and lie to each other and have no loyalty and despise one another is a society that becomes hell

it falls apart if it isnt invaded and overun

so governments have to impose stricter and stricter measures

but the people in the government end up being the same as the ones theyre imposing measures on and so instead of making things better they pass laws and make policies ultimately for their own benefit, which has the same effect of creating hell and fracturing the nation

whereas when a society is made up of people who value courage and honesty and unselfishness and forgiveness amd humility, flourishes and is much more difficult to defeat or to fracture

this is not some kind of religious propoganda, this is human psycho-physiology

its the development of human culture and im sorry if this seems rude but its really not a debate anymore

these things have been understood and accepted for hundreds of thousands of years, even if they arent always lived up to by the ones who try to reject them and thus create the hells which come as a result

Zenchi wrote: If I may make a suggestion Radar, the TOTJO has a rather decent library from which to draw inspiration and reference from both paths, less Sithism more Jediism (easily understood of course why that is). There are a few books within our library that you may wish to pay special attention to when doing your research; the Grand Book of the Sith and the Jedi Holocron are good to start out with from the force perspective, (the latter including Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power). I would round out a study on Modern Sithism with the Book of Five Rings by Myamoto Musashi, the Art of War by Sun Tzu, the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey, the Will to Power by Friedrich Nietzsche, the Virtue of Selfishness by Ayan Rand and the Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli. The last two books I have on dropbox, pm me if you are interested in reading them.

Good book suggestions! I have read 48 Laws of Power (and 33 Strategies of War!), the Book of Five Rings (given to me by my grandfather), and the Art of War. The others I have not read and I will check out. Thank you very much.

To be honest:

Mastery, by Robert Greene, is the best book I've read on the subject. I prescribe it to all my Jedi students.

Question, why is it that whenever someone suggests reading material in regards to sithism or even mentions something other than the obvious, someone always becomes offended and has to attack it? If it works for you, great, but if it doesn't, and there were no derogatory remarks made in the Initial post, honestly, why the negative remarks?

heres a question - what has been said here at this point today that is an attack or is a negative remark?

because lets be honest here - saying that lying and manipulating people is a bad social strategy is not an attack or a negative remark

lying and manipulating people might be seen as an attack on someone or as a negative thing to do

however, pointing out the difference between the two is called maturity and social responsibility, and it works the same for everyone

other than that im not sure what you might be referring to in the context of this thread

but i can see why it would be irritating that every time you try to have a public discussion on the benefits of social manipulation and deceit
some do gooder comes along and says "hey thats a bad idea"

im sure it gets old, so i will try to leave it alone for a while

I have to agree with ob1shinobi Sith want power and will harm anyone which happens to be in their path to get it.

Jonus wrote: I have to agree with ob1shinobi Sith want power and will harm anyone which happens to be in their path to get it.

Are you a Sith?

If not, what makes you an expert?

Just asking..

OB1Shinobi wrote: heres a question - what has been said here at this point today that is an attack or is a negative remark?

Rickie wrote: I'm sorry I think this dark/light jedi/sith stuff is crapolla.

well i think this explains why i value forgiveness
lol - sorry

although i agree with the gist of rickie's comments i do see your point

if anyone needs me ill be over here prying my foot out of my mouth
:leaves

Assuming that just because someone identifies with the Sith philisophy (the real life version, not the fictional movie version because there is a difference) that they are evil is like assuming that every muslim has a bomb strapped to their chest. I'd like to think that the latter is something that we can all agree is wrong to assume.

I'd also like to think that we aren't going to judge a philosophy without learning about it first. Like when a child says that they don't like a particular food when they haven't ever tried it before. They need to try it first, then they can say if they don't like it or not. (BTW I was totally that kid, I missed out on so much good food just because I was stubborn. I want those first fifteen years back to enjoy cottage cheese! :woohoo: )

Zenchi wrote: someone always becomes offended and has to attack it? color]

I'm for one am not offended? I just don't see this as a black/white issue.

As I said, I have been almost two decades on the path.

Most of the reading I would recommend would be from many of my peers, rather than Robert Greene, etc, although I agree with Connor that "Mastery" is a great book.

For much of that time, there was no fiction for Sith.

Sith centric books are a fairly new phenomenon within the mythos.

Hell, we predated what is known as the Sith code by 3 years.

There just wasnt a lot to draw from fictionally, even the movies, 4,5,6, etc did not focus on the Sith as an Order, and only in the screenplay were they referred to as "Sith". However, there were no real exploration into any working methodology.

Much of the earliest writings and explorations are indeed heavily cliche, but we could not carry a cliche, because life, does not fit into a cliche universe.

So we adapted, and for many years did so with what we could, building, adding, etc.

Then the fiction caught up, but by that time, we had created a fairly strong base on our own.

You dont have to like it, which is a given, but really, there is a lot more to this path than anyone other than those that were in it and building on it can see and probably appreciate.

When people bring up Sith, I do not even consider a fictional archetype.

What comes to mind are people I have known, worked with, bonded with, etc over the years.

Miles, Richard,James, Rick, Ben,Crystal,etc.

Some have more colorful screen names, but I know there real ones.

These are the Sith I know.

I know its terribly disappointing for those that want us to when we cannot live up to a fictional archetype, but neither have I seen any Jedi do so either.

What makes these conversations irritating is that it has been the same one for almost two decades.

You are this...

Actually, no.

Yes, you are, and if your not this, than you cant be what you say you are.

Whatever....

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Ad nauseam....

Zenchi wrote: Ad nauseam....

I quoted Zenchi, but I dont address it to him, more to the air, and an out loud pondering about it... Where it is written "you" I mean "an indivdual"...



The thing about it is, that is (generally) new people who dont understand, and who you has to defend their views to...

The ones you have already explained it too, have long since quit asking you (as a group) and actually join your frustration....

Even if you never spoke in defense of Sith ways on TOTJO, the Jedi who understand would... Just as we would and do, about Islamists, Pagans, Atheists, or any other philosophical belief/non-belief system...

We that associate with 'Jedi" do too, maybe more so than the Sith, as we have many more role-players... And get more TV, radio, print, time with it....

Like we tell anyone who gets sick of something, 'you dont have to respond'....

I wonder if it is an 'emo-ish/like' "you dont understand me", or, really, the attention is really desired...

No judgement, I really dont care, lol, anyone can call themselves what they wish...

I just find it interesting....

The ones you have already explained it too, have long since quit asking you (as a group) and actually join your frustration....

Actually, one doesnt have to ask to show the same level of not understanding you, or apparently not listening. Also, I have not necessarily had those that have I have explained it too to quit asking.

Sharing frustration, in a way yes, and in a way, no.

Still, its hardly just from new people.

Like we tell anyone who gets sick of something, 'you dont have to respond'....

This is untrue for many things, and have to is not always the reason one does something, even if its something your sick of.

I wonder if it is an 'emo-ish/like' "you dont understand me", or, really, the attention is really desired...

Neither.

Its the simple notion that nothing ever comes of it, there is ultimately no moving forward.

It would be refreshing for the conversation to evolve in some way, but it doesnt, even for those who "quit asking", as just because they do not ask, again, does not mean things have actually moved forward.

Attention is something one gets when they respond, if they intend to be a part of the conversation.

Even if one does not understand, it would be good to have another avenue to talk about.

Any amount of research, that is, just reading posts should destroy any such notions that we, as in Jedi or Sith, fit into any movie cliche.

So then, the question is less one of whether or not there is a misunderstanding, but why, given the evidence, the thought process still exists.

Frustration comes from the fact that there is more than enough to make such a question, even to a newcomer, rather an ignorant one.

Right, there's quite a difference between engaging in a conversation because you're interested, and just wanting to be noticed or heard. Then it's no longer an intelligent conversation or discussion, but an expression for attention. In the words of a popular SNL skit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BClVT3mPhdI

I don't know much about the modern Sith but I'm pretty sure they're not trying to emulate all aspects of the fictional characters that carried the name.

Should I get the desire to learn more about modern Sith, I'll be sure to ask one.