What does Darth Vader symbolize to you?

"Vader is a broken and fragile man, kept alive only through the use of his armor. He can't even breath on his own. He personifies religion in service to the state; a dead, useless thing that can only bring misery and death."

http://secretsun.blogspot.com/2011/01/son-of-suns-star-wars-symbol-cycle-part.html


"Doctor Doom"

the triangle, or pyramid on Vader's helmet's mouthpiece.

empire. mystery babylon. medici. pharmakeia.

Vader's armor.?!

Vader is the same character to me as Gollum. So much of a victim to the evil and the corrupt that he became an unwilling instrument of it. Unlike Gollum however, Vader was conscious and aware of what his mask was doing and eventually of him being exploited for the purposes of the pure evil at the core - the Emperor. This awareness, the human core that he himself retained ultimately became the catalyst of his dropping the evil black shell and redeem what was left to be salvaged underneath. Gollum had no redeeming value and was corruption in its purest form. There were no facettes to his character, no layers to be pealed which is why there was neither anything left worth saving nor anything left that could still be more destroyed than it already was.

To me Darth Vader is right about the most interesting character in Star Wars for this reason. He is not a symbol of evil for me but rather a symbol of good. In this sense I find him a better symbol for good than the slick Ben Kenobi or the arrogant Yoda or the unrealistically innocent Luke Skywalker, because Skywalker was bland and simplistic and his masters were way darker than they dared showing. Not so with Vader. Vader is humanity, he is beauty for he is the beauty deep inside and he symbolizes our capacity to reclaim our dignity and our goodness however badly the wicked treated us and however much corruption they rubbed off on us.

In obvious and not so obvious ways, Darth Vader represents the father figure. In the literal sense, he is Luke's father. "Vader" literally translates to "father". This wasn't an accident. In the figurative sense, he is the dominating presence that hovers over us throughout our lives. He represents the father we psychologically desire to escape, destroy, become or replace.

His armor represents authority. The suit represents power. He is a warrior in a very real sense, and his armor is clearly influenced by that of the Samurai. It is an outward expression of mechanical power that hides the humanity inside.

I could go on for days, but I'll leave just these few ideas for now...

Vader is the REAL hero of the story

Good ol' Joe Campbell has some interesting thoughts on what Vader represents in the IP lectures (think it's in the first one?).

Not gonna explain them here

Personally, I like him, as a character-study. He brings humanity and gravitas to 'evil', as compared to Palpatine who I find to be almost a caricature. Vader is the tortured soul that I think we can probably all relate to in some shape or form. When I watched the films as a relatively young child, I didn't guess that he was going to end up redeeming himself - but I still felt pity - empathy even - for someone who seemed to me to be trapped living a life that held no personal meaning or joy. Despite the fact that before the prequels came out you didn't know exactly how he had got into that situation, you could tell he wasn't doing all this stuff for the fun of it.

I really enjoy the debate of - does one reach a point with evil where they cannot possibly make up for the deeds that they have carried out? Is Darth Vader truly 'redeemed' when he kills the Emperor to save Luke? Or is it like "dude...you did a good thing, but you're still going to hell". I'm watching a show at the moment with a similarly epic redemption arc and I ponder this question often...

From an "Original Trilogy" perspective, Vader was pure evil, or as Obi Wan said: "more machine, than man now". He was a one unit wrecking machine. You didn't even get any sense of humanity from him until right at the end of ROTJ. That's what I grew up on - a dark, sinister being who was prime-evil. It wasn't until the prequels came out that we get to see how the man became the machine, and then our perspective changes. Now we see him as an example of the pitfalls of allowing your emotions to cloud your judgement, and how the innocent can be manipulated.

I see so much of what Palpatine did, playing out on the world stage around us, and for me, Vader symbolizes what can happen if we allow evil to go unchecked.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

Leandros Von wrote: Vader is the REAL hero of the story

A realization that many had to see Episodes I - III to understand.

After seeing all of them, especially in in-universe chronological order, you see that this is actually, in essence, the biography of Anakin Skywalker. This is also a popular format in heroic stories. We see the humble beginnings, watch him rise through the ranks of a noble order, watch as he is tempted by evil and his eventual fall from grace, his evil and misguided reign, and finally his redemption.

Vader himself, as we know him from the original trilogy, is also a warning to those who would be tempted to the Dark Side. He may have command of a grand army and fierce power, but at what cost? He succumbed to the evil in exchange for his humanity. "He is more machine than man," is not just the obvious statement, but also a statement of his being. He still has a heart beating in there somewhere, but he is cold and coarse and unforgiving like (in the context of the fiction concerning Obi-Wan's personal past) a battle droid with no soul, only doing what it is told (programmed) to do without remorse or compassion.

Rick D wrote: From an "Original Trilogy" perspective, Vader was pure evil, or as Obi Wan said: "more machine, than man now".........Now we see him as an example of the pitfalls of allowing your emotions to cloud your judgement, and how the innocent can be manipulated.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

people can also become mechanized in their belief systems. their status quo belief systems, religions, or service to state or any other mainstream system becomes their Vader suit. the feeling, thinking human being inside them becomes weaker and weaker until their Life is " a dead, useless thing that can only bring misery and death." all that is left to support them is the established state of being, and anything that challenges their mainstream belief system is seen as a dangerous threat. if their Vader suit fails they are afraid that Their life will fail. Fortunately, in the real world, not everyone will croak or kick the bucket if they remove their Vader suit.

I was going to comment here earlier, then got caught up in other things ...

To my mind, Vader is all of us ... he is indeed the 'authoritarian Father' (ex. : Chronos, the 'projected' Wizard in the Wizard of Oz, Prince Escalus in Roméo & Juliette) of the Jungian archetype of mechanical, objective/control-driven, bureaucratic 'authority'. The man who has completely given himself over to the executive of a 'system' role. It is 'evil' - and people DO indeed suffer from it - but it is the Adolph Eichmann sort of 'evil', that which is done out of obedience to a "System" which usurps any human feeling one would naturally have about one's fellow Man.

The "one good act" can indeed be the redemption, Vicky ... Heaven and Hell are both IN US, not somewhere else where the punishment goes on through 'Time'. Heaven and Hell are Eternal -- that is, they are 'outside' of temporality. Saving Luke was incidental, as Luke didn't really need 'saved' in that way ; what 'saved' Vader was throwing the Emperor down the whatever that was. Vader was released from Hell - in his case 'living as a mechanised servant of the machine'. That most of his body was a machine was merely symbolic. Furthermore, that is what the iconic "Darth Vader breath" was : it was not to show that he was on a respirator, but that this was indeed a "living being" and not a "robot". Breath is the essence of Life - and insomuch as the breathing was mechanical, it was also a portent of the virtue of being 'alive'.

Rick ... we saw MANY instances of humanity in Vader all throughout the original trilogy. In the famous scene where he says that blowing up planets is pretty lame and chokes the shit out of General Motte for ridiculing his reverence of the Force -- that is 'humanity' (pretty well disguised, but still). When, aboard the Executor, telling the bounty hunters "I want them alive ; NO disintegrations", that also was humanity. When in the the carbon-freezing chamber in Cloud City and Chewbacca started throwing stormtroopers, Vader pushed away Boba Fett's blaster to keep them from getting shot -- humanity again. In short, he really didn't want them getting hurt .... but he was still very much a slave to the "establishment".

Take Campbell's reference to Sinclair Lewis' Babbitt : "I've never done anything I wanted to do in my whole life." And there we have the hopelessly sad soul inside every Vader we've ever met. Perhaps the Vader we are ...

Darth Vader symbolizes the Darkness in all of us to me the man who chose a life of Darkness and damnation. Over that of the light. However you can not have light without darkness and you cant have darkness without the light in a sense Vader and Luke were the balance of all of life constantly battling for dominance or so that is what I think any way. In this they represented the yin and yang of life. Of course this is just my opinion but you have to admit the symbolic symbolism is within the story.

But if we look at this from are own religious stand point as Jedi could we say that Vader represents the machine of society that tries to force us to be machines. And Luke is the one who found transcendence of peace and realization after all the scene of Vader and Luke could be seen in many ways.

Darth Vader symbolises to me feeling trapped within decisions and how the realisation that its you, yourself keeping you trapped can give you the strength to break free.
His past decisions caused him to feel his path was with the emperor, his actions left him with the feeling he had no choice. The armour bound him and it was his love? For his son that helped him change and see that no one was forcing him to walk this path but him. He could break free, love chained him into one path and also freed him from it.
So I guess he also symbolises love, and the passions that go hand in hand with that love, for his mother, padma, Luke.
He symbolises humanity. In all its many forms.

The Mask... the product of the ramifications of the ego.

We all wear masks, and they tend to be used to cover up scars, our vulnerabilities, our weaknesses, our fear. They are a product of subscribing to "the machines" (social conditioning) of society. I think, when we wear it, and use too much of it as our identity, we may be more susceptible to hurting others and ourselves. But there always comes a point when we begin to decide "enough is enough" with feeling trapped in that mask, and wanting to shed it for those we love. When we do, as vulnerable as we might become, we can redeem ourselves, and our mistakes "die" to the past.

What does Vader represent for me?

Redemption

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt-udg9zQSE

One thing I am surprised that has not been brought up is that Vader was the victim of the "hype". He was told since being rescued that he was the "Chosen One". He had this huge responsibility and expectation placed on him that he was constantly reminded of.

It is not easy to live up to the expectations of others. Or be pushed to act against your nature because of some "destiny" or grand plan. I definitely rebelled against my parents grand plan for me, and walked my own Path.

Ever since I saw the opening scene where Vader walks on the ship, at a young age, all I thought was "Awe". I was in awe of him. The visual display of Awe and Power that was the symbol he was meant to be. It worked.

Luke I found to be a giant whiny baby, that never impressed me. If "Luke" was a bad example of a Jedi, I find him irritating and he brings out the meanie in me. I would have force choked him a lot!

To me its how powerful emotions can be.
Honestly, I think a bad person can only exist once that person has not been able to grow where it needed to or been able to influence where it needed. And so the person knows to not let go or drop down.

But as we all know, what goes up must come down.

that is certainly an interesting observation. "what goes up must come down." i would suggest that few actually know whether they are up or down.

usually when one actually thinks of down, from a terrestrial standpoint, it means in, as inside or going towards the inside of the Earth.

then there is the "are you down" or "you gotta be down to...." or "he was a down a$$ m$$$$$F$$$$R" what does this literally mean? I doubt that few consciously know, but apparently we all subconsciously know, or at least those of us who are "down".

"it's going down."

also some people see a light at the end of the tunnel. "i went down the tunnel, but the light i saw was not blinding."

also, i've only seen one of the "new" star wars movies, and i went down to the library to check some out, they only had one, but the lady brought me John Q instead, "go figure",

are you down enough?

Mrs. Kerry inquired of Woodrow Call," Are you wild enough, Corporal Call?...I have a feeling you are."

Nul ne sut si bien aymer que ce luy qui s'i connoist en Mal ...

To me Vader represents power seperated from courage
power seperated from truth
power seperated from responsibilty
power seperated from vision

Vader had CONFIDENCE in his EXTERNAL SUCCESS
racing pods and battles alike he was eager for the challenge
and he knew that his abilities were up to it

not the same as INTERNAL COURAGE

had his internal courage been cultivated in proportion to his e xternal power he would have been able to

1) face himself honestly
and
2) claim responsibility for his own destiny

Looking at his love for padme
there was a prohibition againzt marriage for the jedi

personally i do not belive in external prohibition against anything, most especially for a jedi, for this reason

Because of the prohibition he was forced to choose between the truth of his love for padme
and the truth of his place as jedi

as a result he became unable to walk in truth of either

he refused the responsibility of choosing between the two
and he refused the responsibility of finding a way to reconcile the two with honesty

which we must maintain to walk in true power

he dishonored his truth as a jedi
And his truth as a man who loves
to hide the truth is to hide from the truth

....this is analysis not judgement...

To reconcile these truths he could have done any number of things
he could have gone to the council and spoke his truth no matter the consequences

If the council refused to acknowledge him in a way which could reconcile his duty as jedi
and his love as a man
then he would be standing in his truth to release himself from further obligation to the temple

there is nothing in the world that one cannot let go of and still be ok
but the more we cling to things the more we distort them and distort ourselves

Jedi is not rank or titles
Jedi is our character
and this also is where he got confused

One reaches a point where the issue of being or not being jedi is no longer an issue
one either iz or isnt
i dont mean jedi vs sith
i use the term JEDI as incluzive of all jedi
Even thoze who have seperated themselves from their own truths and power

And claiming responsibility gives one power

i guess i shoud say one reaches a point where there is no going back to being an average man

In accepting responsibity for his truth he would have STOOD for that truth
the "reality" of it iz that the council would have given exception or changed its policy altlogether

and if itndid not then he would still be anakin skywalker
and he would still be jedi

and though his vanity may never get the stoking of being called MASTER

His TRUTH would have been so much the closer
to truth that the title of MASTER was meant to acknowledge

Our emotions are both the motivation of our actions and the result of our actions
but
We can choose which to emphasis
i.e.
his emotion about the death of his mother by the sand people MOTIVATED his action of slaugthtering them.

when one lives and acts in accordance with jedi principals
ones emotions become the reward for proper action
one FEELS GOOD about onez life

when our emotions propel us to act in ways counter to our accepted principals
or to act as if we had no principals to begin with
we sacrafice a lifèlong vision to the alter of temporary feeling

this is why it is important to define onez principals
so emotion does not lead us to breaking the principals that we do not realize se have

Inwardly, the avoidance or denial of self forces more denial and more avoidance

hate is not our truth
pain is the experience of losing what we cling to
hate is what we feel when we blame others for our pain

THE MASK AND ARMOUR


there is no way to hide oursvelves from others
someone will always see through

but we can hide ourselves from ourselves

Vaders mask and armour represent both an external and an internal comitment to seperation from truth
and relinquishment of personal responsibity

in denying his own truth he feels unable to choose his own destiny

therefore he becomes not merely receptive but even DESIROUS of other peoples vision

he tries to live up to the vision that the council has for him
but it is not his vision
so he becomes disillusioned

now he's prey to palpatine's vision for him
but palpatine does not want a jedi free
he wants a jedi slave

the reward for loyal servitude is increase in external power
and the promise that one day he will enslave another and free himself through the murder of his master

and so he hides behind his mask
not from the world
who knows quite well that he is a slave
and he is insulated by his armour
not from enemies
what enemy weapon could harm him?

But from himself
from truth of himself