Proof of Concept

Magic is Science. Science is Philosophy. You're not in Thr Matrix, you are in A matrix. Life is just an infinite repeating cycle of cycles. Chaos is 1000s of instances or Order executing simultaneously. You are just aware of that now. I'm a Blessing and you're welcome.

Spicey as Always,
Uldric Woodrun

You're going to have to explain what you are trying to say unsoundscientist

I understood it

how I understand this (and is what I believe, and some can be researched):

Magic is Science. - True. In the past magic, as it were, was a science. Astrology became astronomy. Alchemy became chemistry. Etc.

Science is Philosophy. - Philosophy was before science. Geometry was philosophy before it was math. Physics was philosophy before it was science.

You're not in The Matrix, you are in A matrix. - We live in a mass-conscious world that agrees upon what reality is and how we live in it. We alter it, and are subject to it every day.

Life is just an infinite repeating cycle of cycles. - Plants live and die and live in their cycles. Reincarnation is believed by many spiritual paths. It was even in the bible before it was removed.

Chaos is 1000s of instances or Order executing simultaneously. - The world is full of natural laws and, like the circle is the preferred shape that all other shapes come from, Order is typically the preferred movement of events. When many events occur simultaneously, it appears to be Chaos.

dwagoonie wrote: how I understand this (and is what I believe, and some can be researched):

Magic is Science. - True. In the past magic, as it were, was a science. Astrology became astronomy. Alchemy became chemistry. Etc.

Science is Philosophy. - Philosophy was before science. Geometry was philosophy before it was math. Physics was philosophy before it was science.

You're not in The Matrix, you are in A matrix. - We live in a mass-conscious world that agrees upon what reality is and how we live in it. We alter it, and are subject to it every day.

Life is just an infinite repeating cycle of cycles. - Plants live and die and live in their cycles. Reincarnation is believed by many spiritual paths. It was even in the bible before it was removed.

Chaos is 1000s of instances or Order executing simultaneously. - The world is full of natural laws and, like the circle is the preferred shape that all other shapes come from, Order is typically the preferred movement of events. When many events occur simultaneously, it appears to be Chaos.

Yea, was gonna type something up before I saw this… heheh. Well said guys

Mostly, what I'm trying to say is, if you want to understand Chaos you have to understand Order. Chaos is order, but the players are at war. Peace is when all the orders coexist. Sorry that all came out like nonesense. But it you look at the grand scale it is. So, if it doesn't make sense, step closer till it does. That trail is endless, so at some point you just have to say, "yep, that's how it works." Otherwise, you break your brain.

If you want to understand the world, you need to understand yourself. That, in my opinion, is what it means to be a Jedi. A Jedi is a Master of Themselves

unsoundscientist wrote: If you want to understand the world, you need to understand yourself. That, in my opinion, is what it means to be a Jedi. A Jedi is a Master of Themselves

Yet, that sort of mastery doesn't keep itself up. It isn't something that, once achieved, is owned forever. Self mastery is like any other skill which needs constant practice, abandoning any hope of perfection (or anything else possibly attached to an "immortality project" - cf. Ernest Becker)

We also need to be very cautious that we are not puffing up another ego crutch and calling it "self-mastery". Even in the lives of Masters (perhaps especially - when one "should" know better, but then falls in one's own existential excrement anyway. Y'know ???)

unsoundscientist wrote: Mostly, what I'm trying to say is, if you want to understand Chaos you have to understand Order.

See, this sounds vaguely reasonable, and one is intriqued, curious to hear you out, but then the very next thing you say is

Chaos is order, but the players are at war. Peace is when all the orders coexist.

and I, for one, am completely lost as to what it is you are talking about anymore. At the risk of sounding rude, I daresay it might even bring into question whether the former statement sounded so sensible because you actually understood any part of what you were saying or purely on accident, fueled perhaps by the reader's own charity than it was by any profundity of the statement in question.

... So, if it doesn't make sense, step closer till it does. That trail is endless, so at some point you just have to say, "yep, that's how it works." Otherwise, you break your brain.

Why do you think so? Why do you reckon the quest for understanding some specific thing is endless? I would probably grant that it may be longer and more arduous than to be finished or exhausted by any one individual person. Perhaps this was what you meant by this, but I have kind of run out of charity in the beginning of the post, so I'll propose this as an alternative view, rather than as an interpretation of yours: Our lives are finite and so are our other resources. There are problems we have realistically very slim chances at solving within a lifetime, or on our own, and we'd perhaps be well advised to "choose our battles", so to speak; to decide not so much what we individually declare to be "how it works", but rather to draw a blurry line in the sand to say that this is how deep we individually wish or find cost-effective to dig. The statement, then, is not that this is an exhaustive description, but rather that it is a preliminary and admittedly crude model that we use to branch out from to pursue our current purposes, leaving our fellow researchers or future generations to grow the main trunk from whence we had departed for our needs. We reap in this manner both benefits, in that we get to care about what's practically most pressing at the moment, but without paying the price of closing our minds to further, and arbitrarily severe, changes to the base assumptions on which we build our solution.

Chaos is order, but the players are at war. Peace is when all the orders coexist.

and I, for one, am completely lost as to what it is you are talking about anymore. At the risk of sounding rude, I daresay it might even bring into question whether the former statement sounded so sensible because you actually understood any part of what you were saying or purely on accident, fueled perhaps by the reader's own charity than it was by any profundity of the statement in question.

In a forest, all the 'players' have just the correct kind of relationship with one another that the forest survives. The numerous trees take what they need from the soil and the air, leaving room for animals to find homes in and around them. There are a great many 'players' behaving in a way that allows them all to coexist in a relatively stable state.

A lightning bolt strikes one tree and begins a forest fire. Suddenly, that tree is a danger for all the other trees, for it is the source of the fire. Quickly, the fire spreads through the forest, harming other trees and animals alike. No special actor has really been added into this scene (although you could make out the lightning bolt to be one, the fire continues as a result of the kind of system the tree is; if the lightning bolt had struck a tall rock, there would have been less of a problem). There is no malicious figure making the fire go after the trees or the animals. It is simply that the nature of the relationship between all the 'players' has changed, moving the system from an ordered state to a chaotic one.

I, for one, think it is very well put to say that order and chaos are really two different arrangements of the same 'players', the same basic parts. Order occurs when all the various systems are in a stable relationship with one another, and chaos occurs when that relationship becomes unstable. Chaos and order are kinds of relationships between 'players', they are not 'players' in of themselves.

About magic, i like Thor s explanation : Your ancestor's called it magic and you call it science. But of course there s always that part of our imagination that will create magic whish will never become anything else than what it is in Harry Potter s books! Now Chaos is a grand name, but i see it as a point of view, if we look at space with our naked eyes we may think that it is Chaos, well even with a telescope. But science has found out that the whole universe obey to the Force s rules ! Like Gravity, so everything interacts in good accord, nothing just end up disappearing, change orbits or leave one. Chaos is what we call, the states of things or actions that we do not understand.

Vincent Causse wrote: Chaos is what we call, the states of things or actions that we do not understand.

Nothing says a rule-goverend system the rules of which we perfectly understand cannot also be chaotic, though. That's not what chaos means. Take your own example of gravity. We have only strictly deterministic theories of gravity so far, but even if we take them seriously at that they are still perfectly capable of governing chaotic systems. If one can specify exactly the mass density and mass flow density of a gravitationally closed system, one can predict and retrodict all of its history exactly. That is what makes it deterministic, all right. However, if the system is any different than its description, then not only will it eventually deviate noticeably from either the prediction or the retrodiction, but in fact that deviation in the past and future surpasses at one point or another any arbitrarily large limit. This is chaos. It has nothing to do with whether or not we understand the system on a fundamental level. Even toy systems that live only in an ideal world of spherical cows, designed from the ground up to obey well-defined and perfectly understood rules, can still easily be chaotic in that two trajectories arbitrarily close in one phase space location are arbitrarily far apart in another. So just because something is chaotic and we recognize it as such doesn't mean we don't understand it, even down to its most fundamental level.

This is a description of the Odhinnic Paradox.

As to what ever reason I was dwelling on Dagaz that day and dumping the cup. Apparently, you don't need to do that. Chaos in itself makes no sense, because it is the essence of Destruction. Therein Order is the essence of Creation. It is plausible to impose a model of an operating system onto what we call life. However it is the opposite. Computers function like life. All in all, this post was made as a joke. Just was supposed to be a silly post, but I was going thru it. As one does when you don't pay attention to what's going on around you. Ultimately, my apologies to all for any inconvenience the resulting actions may have caused you. Also, I don't deal with back pain well. Didn't mean to offend was just recovering from a very dark place that I was in when I had arrived. Everything after this was a mess. Winter is not a great time of year for me, though that isn't an excuse for what happened. Don't over think it, because it's a Paradox. Though thinking is the point, it is to be understood that it is not understandable.