Thoughts and Things

More
26 Jul 2018 01:01 #324465 by Rosalyn J
In the Spirit of Carlos' "The Block", I'd like to begin my own.

Starting with this video:


Don't let your wounds get in the way-Bishop Vashti McKenzie
Senior Knight, Senior Ordained Minister
Youth Minister
Editor in Chief of the TOTJO Times
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Submit articles
Teaching Maitre: Alexandre Orion
How Am I Doing , My Commitment
Kyber,Freja Saol-Wasser, Tobias Giesel, ZealotX,and Jhannuzs

Initiate Journal , Apprenticeship Journal , Clerical Journal , Continued Study
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Zero Storm

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Jul 2018 02:08 - 26 Jul 2018 02:26 #324466 by Zero Storm
Replied by Zero Storm on topic Thoughts and Things
There is no emotion, only peace?


Apprentice and Seminarian Zero Storm
Journals- IP / Apprentice / Seminary / Meditation / Personal
Teaching Master: Kit

” If you can’t explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.” - Albert Einstein
Last edit: 26 Jul 2018 02:26 by Zero Storm.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Jul 2018 06:36 - 26 Jul 2018 11:17 #324469 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Thoughts and Things
The case against the Jedi
In the short video we explore toxic masculinity, hyper-masculinity and emotions in the Jedi. The principal argument that the author makes here is that Anakin Skywalker was led to the dark side by suppressing his emotions because lack of control over emotions was seen a something that was an indication of moving toward to the dark side for the Jedi. By teaching Anakin the stoic denial and repression of emotion, as opposed to providing the support needed to, for example, deal with the loss of his mother, or with the impending death of Padme, the Jedi eased his path to Darth Vader.
There are few things that stuck out to me and this video, but particularly I want to deal with the above.
We hear in the video that Yoda gives Anakin some of the worst advice as it concerns dealing with his night visions about Padme. Here is a link:
. On its face it seems like pretty sage advice, but the author suggests Yoda could have done something different.
This way I think our clergy are a little different. We work to support members by doing what Yoda did not:
Acknowledging and validating
Listening and Empathy
Encouragement to seek counseling
I think most of us know we won't be lifting a car anytime soon or shooting Force lightning out of our hands. I think we have a harder time understanding that the Orthodox principles of jediism as presented in the movies may also be equally impossible to practice as portrayed. Adaptations must be made to make them more practical and realistic.
Have the temple we're not in the business of being impervious to emotion. Emotions play a role and we are in the business of making sure they do not overstep their role. Learning to acknowledge anger, fear, hatred, excetera as opposed to saying ‘I am a Jedi I'm not supposed to feel these things ‘ and thereby feeling some shame, is one of those adaptations we have to make.
The clergy then, assist us in exploring the emotions we are feeling. First by acknowledging that these emotions are average emotions. Not indications of failure in character. By acknowledging these emotions we can help the emotion pass in healthy way, with a healthy expression.
there are many things the author brought forward. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and other points.
As always, my inbox is open.
May the Force be with you
Ros

Don't let your wounds get in the way-Bishop Vashti McKenzie
Senior Knight, Senior Ordained Minister
Youth Minister
Editor in Chief of the TOTJO Times
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Submit articles
Teaching Maitre: Alexandre Orion
How Am I Doing , My Commitment
Kyber,Freja Saol-Wasser, Tobias Giesel, ZealotX,and Jhannuzs

Initiate Journal , Apprenticeship Journal , Clerical Journal , Continued Study
Last edit: 26 Jul 2018 11:17 by Rosalyn J.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Locksley, JLSpinner

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Jul 2018 09:05 #324471 by JLSpinner
Replied by JLSpinner on topic Thoughts and Things
During my apprenticeship Phortis and I discussed this very subject. In the movies Anakin was born of the Force and was an emotional being, as we all are. His struggles and ultimate downfall came from his inability to get help for fear of reprisal and his inability to handle his emotional strain. A big part of the Last Jedi revolved around this major flaw with the old Jedi teachings. The idea that our fundamental nature/processes can be repressed and controlled. The hubris that Jedi are "better than emotions".
I feel that searching and exploring our feelings and why we feel them is vastly more helpful and practical. Emotions can't and shouldn't be ignored. No more than we can stop the next sunrise. Instead we should venture to find the causes, both hidden and obvious. We should venture for mindfulness to insure our emotions don't control our actions. We should venture to understand who we are and that shame is NOT necessary.
If the Jedi were more open minded would he have fallen? If he felt comfortable explaining his struggles would he have fallen? How much pain could have been avoided with a little empathy and understanding? If the riggid Jedi were tools of the Force, how could Anakin(literally born from the Force) have been so inadequate in this role?


Teaching Master: Phortis Nespin
Apprentice: Kobos
Apprentice: Nakis
Contact Clergy
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rosalyn J

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Jul 2018 16:50 - 26 Jul 2018 16:53 #324478 by Carlos.Martinez3
I am a fan first and foremost of the cinematic Jedi. As people look for labels and things in movies and in literature- it’s easy to find difrent ideas you agree with and do not. Toxic behavior exist in masculinity and in religion as well as in sports and politics and even - in the home front. Star Wars can be seen as a movie of males coming of age and or of the man vs man- man vs himself - man vs nature type of literature. Depends on how we look at things and what is our focus. Some can call the old descriptive literature words archaic or even out dated but when it comes to the this particular subject we tend to forget what the director actually said... *1* “ After stumbling across A Hero with a thousand Faces , I began to understand how I could do this...” the sagas are man - human beings - not male - a boy and his specific problems but - mans passing from young to old and how we can identify with the “ all man idea” of the type of things we go thru as humans from adolescent to adulthood. The idea of toxic masculinity wasn’t a hot topic back when G L wrote the sagas. The Star Wars to me .. is another story to relate to as far as struggles wins and losses. I totally connect with them in that way. Many of us do! Smileyface.
Just because Anikin is a boy doesn’t make the specific ides masculine toxicity. It’s more along the line referring to the toxic influences that come in our life’s as we grow up- race creed or gender - I remember them in my path. Yoda to me, is wisdom past and application of wisdom past. The main character ( Luke or Annie) was faced with the common bit of - how do I take that and apply it today. ? How do I learn from the past and apply that now? How do I honor the past by my actions today. This is one of the hardest things for every human to answer. My own opinion.
I’m a fan for so many reasons of the Star Wars from being a nerd to being a movie buff to being able to see the giggle impression from and influence of J Cambell ideas to the literal literary points it has. So many times I’ve viewed the SW as GL sitting by a fire sharing his view of things and life’s ebbs n flows with me. But that’s just me.


Edit
1 Cite GL quote -
www.bing.com/videos/search?q=george+luca...6D323444BA&FORM=VIRE

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 26 Jul 2018 16:53 by Carlos.Martinez3.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Jul 2018 18:14 #324481 by Senan
Replied by Senan on topic Thoughts and Things
TL;DR VERSION: I ramble a little here, but Seneca says all of this way better than I do if you're curious.

This might seem to stray a bit, but I believe that sometimes there is confusion between the toxic masculinity discussed here and the actual Stoic virtues encouraged by the fictional Jedi. While I see the points being made about Yoda's advice and the mishandling of Anakin, I also believe there are subtle points being missed.

In my opinion, Yoda is not telling Anakin to let go of everything and brush off emotion. He isn't telling Anakin to "man up" and get over it. It isn't about showing weakness by being emotional, but failing to recognize when an emotion is motivating irrational behavior.

He is offering a warning about the fear that comes with becoming too attached to the emotions generated by exterior influences, specifically Padme and his mother. His mother's death was a tragic and significant event in Anakin's life, but a true Stoic would say that a life of minimalism and emotional detachment would have prepared him better to deal with it in a healthy way. By letting go of all we fear to lose, as Yoda says, we actually prepare ourselves to more properly feel the emotion that arises when it happens. The same can be said of love. If we are careful not to allow emotional love to dominate our lives, we actually enjoy it that much more when the genuine feeling arises for a justifiable reason. We can feel it fully and completely with an intensity that is more meaningful than it would be if we felt exaggerated emotion all of the time. It is like eating bread and water everyday, and then being treated to a gourmet meal. If we live our lives with no more attachment than is absolutely necessary, it makes the special moments even better.

Yoda and Kenobi both attempt to offer the same advice to Luke as he leaves Degobah to save Leia and Han in Cloud City. They are not saying "forget and abandon your friends". They are warning that by allowing the attachment to his friends to motivate his actions, he is allowing emotion to cloud his judgment. Some would say this is the Jedi toxic masculinity showing up again, but as we follow the story arc, we see that Luke finally realizes Yoda and Kenobi are right. He understands that his attachment to his friends is constantly putting them in danger and he must leave them to face Vader alone. In true Stoic nature, he learns that he is better served focusing on completing the altruistic goal. That is what will ultimately help his friends the most. He must stop being selfish and be content with what the Force is giving him. If Anakin could have let go of his attachment to saving Padme, he could have completed his altruistic goal of defeating the Sith Lord for the good of the Republic and thus would've saved Padme in the process, or at least changing the means of her ultimate demise.

per fraternitate consurgamus
Knight | Councillor | Sergeant At Arms | Licensed Minister
Apprentices: vladucard , ThomasWFaulkner , Kyrin Wyldstar
IP/Apprenticeship Journal | Seminary Journal | Degree Journal | Senan's Health Journey
The following user(s) said Thank You: Locksley, Carlos.Martinez3

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Jul 2018 19:31 #324483 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Thoughts and Things
The next entry, which is going to happen next Friday, concerns the misappropriation of stoic ideas/ideals and so if you have any resources for this entry, I'd be glad to have them. Just post them here

Don't let your wounds get in the way-Bishop Vashti McKenzie
Senior Knight, Senior Ordained Minister
Youth Minister
Editor in Chief of the TOTJO Times
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Submit articles
Teaching Maitre: Alexandre Orion
How Am I Doing , My Commitment
Kyber,Freja Saol-Wasser, Tobias Giesel, ZealotX,and Jhannuzs

Initiate Journal , Apprenticeship Journal , Clerical Journal , Continued Study
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
26 Jul 2018 20:55 #324488 by Senan
Replied by Senan on topic Thoughts and Things
I got a lot out of reading the "Modern Stoic" chapters in The Tao of Seneca. You can download the three volumes for free as PDFs here: https://tim.blog/2017/07/06/tao-of-seneca/

This article also explains pretty well how Stoicism isn't about being unfeeling, but instead about consciously changing the way you feel about things: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/12/19/how-to-be-a-stoic

I have a bunch more, but most of the links I would offer are in the Tao of Seneca anyway.

per fraternitate consurgamus
Knight | Councillor | Sergeant At Arms | Licensed Minister
Apprentices: vladucard , ThomasWFaulkner , Kyrin Wyldstar
IP/Apprenticeship Journal | Seminary Journal | Degree Journal | Senan's Health Journey
The following user(s) said Thank You: Locksley, Twigga

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.