RANKING: Jedi Vs. Clergy

Whiteknight wrote:

You could for the clergy, concerning the use of Cleric, drop the Jedi part.

So for example you would have a Cleric Apprentice instead of a Jedi Apprentice and so on.

That would make it awefully difficult to put down. \"Cleric apprentice Jedi Apprentice Yurnamehere?\" thats a mouthfull

Of course there would be a difference with which clergy person had more responsibility and such, which would go along with their rank as well. Besides, I though the point of separete designators for Clergy was to Identify them as people who are Clergy, not saying I'm a higher clergy than this guy, because I do more clergy related things than he/she does. If anything it should be so people would know who to contact for counseling and possible ceremonies and such.

As far as reaching others, I agree it needs to be accesible, but this isn't winning souls. All we need to do is get the word out, so people can come here for themselves to see if they like it. If they do, when they get into it, it wouldn't be hard to discern who was clergy and who wasn't. People who are typically looking for a different religion or what not, are not looking for a carbon copy, they are looking for something completely separate, something Jedi. Besides, all clergy are going to be performing pretty much the same functions, except for maybe senior clergy teaching junior clergy methods and such. And if there are certain functions like only certain ceremonies that only senior clergy can reside over. I'd really like if we got some more insight on this, than just yours and mine.

DK

Of course there would be a difference with which clergy person had more responsibility and such, which would go along with their rank as well. Besides, I though the point of separete designators for Clergy was to Identify them as people who are Clergy, not saying I'm a higher clergy than this guy, because I do more clergy related things than he/she does. If anything it should be so people would know who to contact for counseling and possible ceremonies and such.

As far as reaching others, I agree it needs to be accesible, but this isn't winning souls. All we need to do is get the word out, so people can come here for themselves to see if they like it. If they do, when they get into it, it wouldn't be hard to discern who was clergy and who wasn't. People who are typically looking for a different religion or what not, are not looking for a carbon copy, they are looking for something completely separate, something Jedi. Besides, all clergy are going to be performing pretty much the same functions, except for maybe senior clergy teaching junior clergy methods and such. And if there are certain functions like only certain ceremonies that only senior clergy can reside over. I'd really like if we got some more insight on this, than just yours and mine.

DK

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

Of course there would be a difference with which clergy person had more responsibility and such, which would go along with their rank as well. Besides, I though the point of separete designators for Clergy was to Identify them as people who are Clergy, not saying I'm a higher clergy than this guy, because I do more clergy related things than he/she does. If anything it should be so people would know who to contact for counseling and possible ceremonies and such.

As far as reaching others, I agree it needs to be accesible, but this isn't winning souls. All we need to do is get the word out, so people can come here for themselves to see if they like it. If they do, when they get into it, it wouldn't be hard to discern who was clergy and who wasn't. People who are typically looking for a different religion or what not, are not looking for a carbon copy, they are looking for something completely separate, something Jedi. Besides, all clergy are going to be performing pretty much the same functions, except for maybe senior clergy teaching junior clergy methods and such. And if there are certain functions like only certain ceremonies that only senior clergy can reside over. I'd really like if we got some more insight on this, than just yours and mine.

DK

Tired of hearing from me Huh? lol.

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

Of course there would be a difference with which clergy person had more responsibility and such, which would go along with their rank as well. Besides, I though the point of separete designators for Clergy was to Identify them as people who are Clergy, not saying I'm a higher clergy than this guy, because I do more clergy related things than he/she does. If anything it should be so people would know who to contact for counseling and possible ceremonies and such.

As far as reaching others, I agree it needs to be accesible, but this isn't winning souls. All we need to do is get the word out, so people can come here for themselves to see if they like it. If they do, when they get into it, it wouldn't be hard to discern who was clergy and who wasn't. People who are typically looking for a different religion or what not, are not looking for a carbon copy, they are looking for something completely separate, something Jedi. Besides, all clergy are going to be performing pretty much the same functions, except for maybe senior clergy teaching junior clergy methods and such. And if there are certain functions like only certain ceremonies that only senior clergy can reside over. I'd really like if we got some more insight on this, than just yours and mine.

DK

You can't possibly see this church as a carbon copy of any other. can you?

Not exactly no, but there are things that are, which is why we should strive to get away from those, and do our own thing, thats how Jediism basically started, atleast for me.

DK

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

Not exactly no, but there are things that are, which is why we should strive to get away from those, and do our own thing, thats how Jediism basically started, atleast for me.

DK

Is it that you find issue with it being borrowed from Christianity?

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

Not exactly no, but there are things that are, which is why we should strive to get away from those, and do our own thing, thats how Jediism basically started, atleast for me.

DK

I value your opinion - what do you suggest?

Br. John

I personally do not find it difficult to accept and respect the clerical titles. These are titles to which I can fully relate (due to their duties, responsabilities, carisma, vocation). For me the essential word is vocation. They certainly are not levels of for example military command which have to fulfilled or not. We are not present to execute duties, but are ther to live and let live. They are a simultaneous calling (from the Force) and response (from a Jedi), involving the perons faith, hopes, body, spirit, mind, visions and hopes. It is something very personal and at the same time administrative. If someone saw this as being destructive to the unity, then that observer is missing out the fact that this human potential to profile him/herself can be done in any situation. Superiority traits can be found amongst those in the most basic of social occupations.

The titles I am talking about are Rev., Bishop and Arch-Bishop.

In any other capacity I would agree. But look at it from this point of view: I as a soldier know of the limits of my training. I also can sense the knowledge of others around me. Sometimes I have more, sometimes they do. Sometimes those that do not still outrank me. Now take all that to just mean that sometimes there are those that have more training than others, and those that are simply in positions of (and I hate to use \"this\" word) power. We owe them the respect of their appointed offices and or positions. I have had spititual debates with clergy members in the past, but did not falter to refer to them by their titles. I kind of agree with the whole \"on the same level\" thing, but you also has to understand that there are those that are more versed and further trained that others sometimes.

Up until now I`ve heard a lot about experience, levels, ranks, titles, knowledge... . What about spirituality? What about the depth of spirituality that any of these positions incorporates? The more the position takes on responsability the more spiritually firm the person has to be, and the more its members can look to the Rev., Bishop, Archbishop for guidance. In this way those with clerical orders become a gift, and not a burden. This does in no way however exclude the depth of spirituality of its members, or that they may not be consulted. No, it just means that the Bishop... are public points of reference.

Exactly brother. Good point. We do not hoard these titles over the other members for there are Jedi that simply choose not to attain a position within the clergy, and nor does it give us any ranking over anyone.

Hi, this whole ranking thing, is somewhat tiresome, and we appear to have raped and pillaged the Catolic faith for their titles, I could be wrong, but people are running around with \"Rankings\" of Bishop, or Monsignor. Why not create a generic brand for our titles. Initiate, for those who have yet to find a Master, Apprentice for those who have a Master, Knight for those who have completed their training, and then Master for those that have taken and completed the training of an Apprentice? Why do we have to take the titles from other religions when we are supposed to be a separate entity from other religions?
Just a thought.

Br. Shaun wrote:

Hi, this whole ranking thing, is somewhat tiresome, and we appear to have raped and pillaged the Catolic faith for their titles, I could be wrong, but people are running around with \"Rankings\" of Bishop, or Monsignor. Why not create a generic brand for our titles. Initiate, for those who have yet to find a Master, Apprentice for those who have a Master, Knight for those who have completed their training, and then Master for those that have taken and completed the training of an Apprentice? Why do we have to take the titles from other religions when we are supposed to be a separate entity from other religions?
Just a thought.

Those rankings are the ones used to designate our development as Jedi. This discussion is regarding that of CLERGY.

These rankings are not specifically Roman Catholic, but also to be found in the Anglican, Evangelical, Orthodox, Mormon, Baptist, Old Catholic... traditions.

All of which are based on one thing, the Bible. I'm not here to discuss the validity of said book, but it all comes from the same place, the differences there are points of view and interpretations of the words. My point it, it needs to be more Jedi specific or a generic term that doesn't take strictly from one set of beliefs. I wouldn't ask you all to make me Jedi Knight Sage, because I believe in Taoism, and people with the most experience in it are refered to as sage. Which is why I recommended Cleric, and the slight differences in title that I did, it is both a generic term used by nearly all spiritualities, yet Jedi specific, because no other religion uses the term directly in titles or designations. Do I object that they come from Christianity, yes, but not because its Christianity, but because it is pulled from one basic set of beliefs, I would object to Rabbi, or Imam as well and with just as much enthusiasm.

Br. John, I did recommend some titles, I'm not sure what page they are, but I can't figure out how to quote from them with out going out of this message to do it, it should be in this thread somewhere.

DK

John, it is currently on page four, my sugestions for named ranks of clergy. Something I still don't believe to be absolutely necessary, but seemingly wanted by the majority.

DK

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

All of which are based on one thing, the Bible. I'm not here to discuss the validity of said book, but it all comes from the same place, the differences there are points of view and interpretations of the words. My point it, it needs to be more Jedi specific or a generic term that doesn't take strictly from one set of beliefs. I wouldn't ask you all to make me Jedi Knight Sage, because I believe in Taoism, and people with the most experience in it are refered to as sage. Which is why I recommended Cleric, and the slight differences in title that I did, it is both a generic term used by nearly all spiritualities, yet Jedi specific, because no other religion uses the term directly in titles or designations. Do I object that they come from Christianity, yes, but not because its Christianity, but because it is pulled from one basic set of beliefs, I would object to Rabbi, or Imam as well and with just as much enthusiasm.

Br. John, I did recommend some titles, I'm not sure what page they are, but I can't figure out how to quote from them with out going out of this message to do it, it should be in this thread somewhere.

DK

You see they are not used here with any connection of that kind whatsoever, and we know that. No where in the Bible does it lay down what these designations are nor is it spoken about at all in this manner. I do not believe the word Bishop is even in the Bible. They were created by man.

Twsoundsoff wrote:

Dhagon Krayt wrote:

All of which are based on one thing, the Bible. I'm not here to discuss the validity of said book, but it all comes from the same place, the differences there are points of view and interpretations of the words. My point it, it needs to be more Jedi specific or a generic term that doesn't take strictly from one set of beliefs. I wouldn't ask you all to make me Jedi Knight Sage, because I believe in Taoism, and people with the most experience in it are refered to as sage. Which is why I recommended Cleric, and the slight differences in title that I did, it is both a generic term used by nearly all spiritualities, yet Jedi specific, because no other religion uses the term directly in titles or designations. Do I object that they come from Christianity, yes, but not because its Christianity, but because it is pulled from one basic set of beliefs, I would object to Rabbi, or Imam as well and with just as much enthusiasm.

Br. John, I did recommend some titles, I'm not sure what page they are, but I can't figure out how to quote from them with out going out of this message to do it, it should be in this thread somewhere.

DK

You see they are not used here with any connection of that kind whatsoever, and we know that. No where in the Bible does it lay down what these designations are nor is it spoken about at all in this manner. I do not believe the word Bishop is even in the Bible. They were created by man.

As such they are words, and this allows us to use them as any other religion does. I must say again, if it isnt broke, why fix it? To make it unique? We are unique already, changing this wont make it any more so.