Question Time: Ask Anonymous Questions About Apprenticeship

With many of you undertaking the IP or perhaps finished the IP and waiting for an apprenticeship, you might have questions about what being an apprentice involves.

It might be that you think your question is a bit stupid, or perhaps you're worried about asking it.

That's where I come in

My anonymous question time is here.

Go to THIS LINK HERE and ask your question, and I will post the answers to your questions here in this thread.

No names required, nobody will know the question came from you.

On the flip side, someone here might ask a question you hadn't thought of but realise you wanted to know the answer to.

I'll monitor it for the next week or so at least, so feel free to ask your questions.

Thank you for all the question submissions so far. There are a quite a few and I will respond to them when I can.

If you haven't asked a question yet and would like to please do, there are no stupid questions

How much of Knighthood is focused on being a good teacher? Is there a course Knights are required to take before they can take apprentices? I guess I feel being a successful student is not equivalent with being a good teacher.

The training programmes for apprentices are set by their teachers, all apprentices however will get some lessons on teaching others. Apprentices are encouraged to participate in the administration and management of the forum, such as the IP mentors, to help prepare them.
Towards the end of their apprenticeship, apprentices are encouraged to start producing their own teaching programme and will get support on this from their teacher.

You're right, being a good student does not necessarily mean being a good teacher, but we try and prepare apprentices the best we can for taking on the teaching role themselves.

What percentage of Apprentices are put forward for Knighthood then declined?

We don't keep records in such a way that I can answer in the way you've requested, but I will try to give some answer.

Before apprentices can be put forward their training master will discuss it with another knight, usually their own training master. If they decide that the apprentice needs to do more work, then the TM will set further assignments relevant to apprentice. Though this isn't the purpose necessarily, doing this means fewer apprentices are put forward to ultimately be declined. That's not to say that apprentices may still not be declined however. They must undergo an interview with other knights before knighthood is decided to be granted. The questions asked in this interview are meant to ascertain the attitude of the apprentice towards knighthood and their readiness for it. It has been the case that apprentices have been declined after these interviews. If this happens, then more study is expected of the apprentice under the guidance of their teacher. Study does not necessarily mean 'read this book', but can be working on personal attitudes. If someone is highly impatient and demanding of knighthood for example, they may be expected to work on their patience before being accepted as a knight.

As a whole, knights prefer to make sure their apprentice is likely to be ready before putting them forward.

What percentage of Apprentices quit the Temple before completing studies?

As in my previous answer, that's not a statistic that I have. Some apprentices obviously do leave. Sometimes this is because apprentices no longer feel that this path is for them, sometimes it is because they have too much going on in their life to commit, some may become ill etc. Apprentices may leave for any reason any other member of the forum may leave.

Some apprentices just take a very long time to complete their apprenticeship and may be absent for long periods of time, life is what it is and we try not to penalise anyone for it.

Edan wrote:

How much of Knighthood is focused on being a good teacher? Is there a course Knights are required to take before they can take apprentices? I guess I feel being a successful student is not equivalent with being a good teacher.

The training programmes for apprentices are set by their teachers, all apprentices however will get some lessons on teaching others. Apprentices are encouraged to participate in the administration and management of the forum, such as the IP mentors, to help prepare them.
Towards the end of their apprenticeship, apprentices are encouraged to start producing their own teaching programme and will get support on this from their teacher.

You're right, being a good student does not necessarily mean being a good teacher, but we try and prepare apprentices the best we can for taking on the teaching role themselves.

Each TM or training Master here is different. How the Apprenticeship goes is up to the both involved.
As a Teacher here as well, it is our hope that each Knight here has the ability to "help" others as they have been "helped." There's a HUGE vast amount that can be included in this. Not every Knight teaches and not every Knight is the same here. Each ministry or lanes or fields of expertise is up to each individual. There are some teachers here who have some things, in form and ready and there are some who have different approaches. Reading Journals is a defiantly good thing for student teacher here. How else are you gonna know about some one if ya dont share it? There is soooo much that can be shared.

Some learn further
Some teach
Some serve
Some are present
All are Jedi
All are at different LEVELS and different focuses. Communication with your teacher and a honesty helps to create the Knight you wanna be. Maybe even the Jedi you wanna be.

When knights quit then come back, how is it they are allowed to come back as teachers right away? That feels like a weird policy. Shouldn't they have to do some work or an apprenticeship to qualify again first, especially when some of knighthood is dedication to this place?

The return of knights is taken on a case by case basis and what they do on their return is decided by the Council. Some knights may seem 'away' but are still here working in the background or checking in regularly. Knights that have been away a long time may be asked to redo the IP or other work. Apprenticeships are not immediately granted, if a Council member feels that a knight has not demonstrated enough commitment, they may be asked to wait. As an aside, Knighthood is not necessarily dedication to TOTJO, but to the personal development and the ideals of Jediism.

What percentage of Apprentices are put forward for Knighthood then declined?

What percentage of Apprentices quit the Temple before completing studies?


Here in the Temple, we do whats called SELF-PACED learning. It's the same as Temple time. It takes a bit of getting used to it if you're not already prone to it.

We don't track what others DON'T do... We would be there ALL Day...That's not our "thing."

Apprenticeships are structured to the student. They are recommended that way lol.
An Apprenticeship can be as quick as mine or as long as one of my very own students who is a council member of another organisation and is STILL a student here, Willfully.
Temple time is strange... we use a standard time zone here. Nothing sinister, just a time we can all agree on. During our 24 hours of the day we all have to eat, sleep, poop, and live, AS WELL AS TEMPLE. The adjusting of time to Temple time- real time to "study" or "share". Time can be something we can add to our every day life... aka make room in our schedule for this if we choose...

Managing time and life around an extra avenue of life can take some getting used to. Temple or the gym or a library...Real talk, It can take acts of balancing as far as time and efforts go. Apprenticeship falls under extra time needed.
The MAIN reason for NOT finishing is normally time management. Once you kick that dog out this place ain't so bad lol.


Self- paced
Not every one had the same time here.
some can't.
some won't.
There are a number of reason people quit things and here is no exception.
Births
deaths
moving
time and effort
loss of interest
loss if funds
change of family
Time
marriage
divorce
New job
new kids
health problems
we have some in active military services to their country- 3 I believe currently and one deployed... there are a number of reasons someone might stop during their apprenticeship really. They may just not like their teacher after a while, EVERY STUDENT IS ABLE TO SWITCH OR CHANGE OR START OR STOP their apprenticeship here at any time for any reason, no blame. It's a right, and a rule lol
We have 2 completed Apprentices who have moved on to Knighthood so far this year.
Many people have Returned to studies and many have not, many don't even know the Temple has changed structures as far as the site is concerned.
We can NEVER say someone quit on a certain day because there is that HUGE expanse of possibility that maybe life is happening for that personal that particular moment. How can one quit one's path? Ya really can't. This place houses many thing that can't be measured in a formal fashion.
Case in point, what's considered active on a forum? the amount of posts? ya can't really tell when someone is one or a million in some times, ya can't say who's all quit when no ones really quit quit... ya can't stray from YOUR path, it's yours.
real talk there are people here that aren't here daily and who maybe may come back or complete things, some have, some won't, some will... see how that's hard to say a number or a actual graph?

What does TOJO do to ensure apprentices are happy in their apprenticeships and masters are doing things well/properly?

There is always some level of mediation possible between knights and their apprentices where there is a problem. If no solution is found between the knight and their apprentice by themselves then they would seek support from another knight/council member. If no solution is found after that then the apprentice may be taken on by another knight. If there are none available, or none that the apprentice is comfortable with, then training may be suspended until someone suitable is found.

In terms of whether teaching is done well or properly, knights are always talking to each other. We will always have someone that we can confide in, and if one of us thought there may be an issue then we would either speak to that knight (if we were close enough) or speak to another knight who is. Alternatively if we didn't feel we could speak to them and thought there was an issue then going to a council member is always possible.

The process for gaining knighthood by an apprentice allows for discussion between knights, and veto by council members (see one of my previous answers). We are a community and work together, so we will look out for each other both knights and apprentices.

Given it's a required component of becoming an Apprentice, making it a required component of becoming a Knight and Master in 2020 (but not in the past), what percentage of current Knights and Masters have studied the current 2020 IP and all its lessons? How is it correct some of them call themselves Knights or Masters without having studied it?

Many of the current knights have become so under the current version of the IP. Some of the masters also.

With regards to those knights/masters who got their ranks before the current iteration of the IP, they will have done the work at some point in time since it came into being. After all, in order to discuss the appropriateness of the lessons they would have had to been completed by those who were discussing it.

Unfortunately without going through all of their journals on this site I can't tell you numbers, but I can tell you the knights here will have done their homework, most knights in fact will have done the IP more than once. You are welcome to discuss the IP lessons with any knight on the forum, if you are interested in their thoughts on any of the lessons I am sure they would share them with you.

A reminder that the anonymous questions form is still open and will be for the next week, please do ask any questions you have about apprenticeship.

PLEASE ASK YOUR QUESTIONS HERE

Why is so much of Apprenticeship hidden from view? hard to know if you're gonna want to do something if you can't even see it

Sorry missed this question when I was going through.

There are some who would race to do as much as possible before they even get to apprenticeship, and we don't really want people to try and preempt any potential training master by searching through apprentice journals or guessing what they would be set.

There is also the consideration given to that fact that the relationship between training master and apprentice is a much closer one than knight to initiate/novice, and sometimes apprentices discuss things in journals that they may not wanted broadcasted across the whole website.

Apprenticeship isn't a super secret club with strange workings; apprentices get assignments given to them by their training masters based on what the TM thinks would help them, and what the TM might think is important for apprentices to learn. Some of the material set is in our library here. The process is not that different to the IP, you have an assignment which you complete and then you write it up.

If you're getting towards the time when you might finish the IP, I encourage you to speak to knights to see about the kinds of things they set, and their work programmes.

What are apprenticeships like in general? I'm guessing it varies by person, but is an apprenticeship something like a one-on-one version of the IP designed by those involved, or does it spin off in other directions altogether/is too variable to describe type of norm?

For the most part an apprenticeship is lot like you describe, a one on one type of IP. Each training master has their own way of teaching. Some knights prefer to have a more structured plan, with the same assignments set (at least initially) for every apprentice they train.

Some (like myself) are more casual, setting assignments they think are interesting and useful, and adding ones in where it looks like the apprentice might need help in that area. I have a kind of 'bank' of lessons that my apprentice is free to look through and pick from. Though time differences can make things harder, I myself have conversations with my apprentices which may bear out lessons if, for example, the apprentice has gone through a trying situation and needs more clarity.

There are other training masters who are a bit like mine was, leaving me mostly to my own devices to seek out assignments, then offering support and advice where I needed it.

I can think of one particular training master who is a fan of lessons borne from deep conversation, not just setting assignments.

Some training masters are a mix of one or more of the above.

We encourage potential apprentices to speak to knights about how they do things because some approaches will work for some but not for others.

Why is knighthood not required for becoming a councilor

There is only one person on the current roster of councillors I believe who is not a knight, that is due to his responsibilities as forum administrator. While not a knight, he is a very long standing member of this community.

Otherwise, councillors are appointed by the Council and it is usually expected that they be a knight. I cannot think of any previous exceptions off the top of my head (though I am happy to be corrected).

Is philosophy still a required to be a major part of training after the IP? Or is it possible to tailor one's training in a more hands-on direction?

There are no required topics, as I said in the previous answer. The syllabus set by a knight usually depends on their own background and apprenticeship experience, and what they think the apprentice would benefit from. That said, some knights are more inclined towards philosophy than others and you may end up studying it within assignments.

Apprentices obviously have input in what they learn, if my apprentice said that they wanted to do something I would probably say yes unless I couldn't see the purpose. If that assignment was more hands on, such as volunteering, then that would be fine. I think you are unlikely to have a wholly philosophical or a wholly hands on apprenticeship, it'll be a mix and when you come to reach apprenticeship it is something you would discuss with your teacher.

Just a reminder that the anonymous questionnaire form is still up and I am still taking questions.

What's the benefit of training up to Knighthood?

My personal opinion is that the benefits of training to knighthood are less about the assignments set as an apprentice, and more about having someone there during your apprenticeship who is invested in you and your journey, who can challenge your opinions and hold you to account. None of us lead the same lives and it's useful to have someone else with a different view to give their opinion on the things you write about, who learns about you and how you react to things so they can challenge you. We don't grow if we don't can't consider the validity of our opinions, and having someone walking metaphorically beside you while you are on your journey means that you always have someone who can say 'yes, but....'

The other benefits are that you can be set assignments on topics you never would have chosen yourself, opening you to new things and new ways of thinking. If your TM has experience or specialist knowledge in a certain area then you can explore it deeper with their help.

Temple wise, the benefit is that eventually you can walk alongside someone else on their journey, and support them in the same way your TM supported you. When you don't have a TM anymore, having an apprentice gives a knight a chance to have their view challenged and to be taught something new at a time when all learning is self directed.

For me, the best bit of knighthood is being able help others, to teach others, and to give something back to those who put themselves out for me. Knighthood, in a way, is service. Service to others, service to the Temple, and service to yourself.

Will I get a mentor?

I apologise for missing this question.

If you mean mentor as in a training master for your apprenticeship, we can't always promise that you will find one. As I've mentioned in previous answers finding a TM depends on availability of knights, whether you can find someone you can connect with, and who approaches apprenticeship in the way you would respond to.

We do what we can to support you finding someone, sometimes that means you have to wait until another apprentice has been knighted before the knight you get on with can take you on.

If you think you're at the point where you need a training master, I urge you to get in contact with a knight so we can see what we can do to help find someone for you.

Something I will say is that it's a two way street, don't expect knights to always come straight to you, they're busy and we have many members. Be proactive and reach out to the knights.

We have many people approaching the end of the IP so I thought I would resurrect this thread.

Go to THIS LINK HERE and ask your question, and I will post the answers to your questions here in this thread.

It's all anonymous.

How and when do you get chosen to be an apprentice

Once you've finished the IP and have become an initiate you'll qualify to become an apprentice. Sometimes knights will reach out to you, but I recommend that you do not wait and hope someone reaches out, but look into the knights on the forum and see if there are any you think you might like to work with and reach out to them. Discord is a good place for this btw as the knights are often on there more casually than the forum itself. You can start this before you get to the end of the IP if you want. The Teachers Who We Are thread is a good place to find out who the current active knights are.