Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...)

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Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 12 Apr 2012 22:04 #56123

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SeanChing wrote:
Senior Knight Akkarin,

I acknowledge your opinions, but I respectfully disagree with many of them.

Fair enough lol

I'm in the same position that you are it seems :)
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Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 12 Apr 2012 22:10 #56125

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I like the prequals, but I think they do have a few serious issues. I think the Phantom Menace was made for children < 10 years of age, and so I think Jar Jar should have killed by Darth Maul and Qui Jon felt a bit guilty so he became unbalanced by emotion when he fought and lost to Maul. Jar Jar had no place beyond the Phantom Menace. Clone Wars could have then been for 8 - 16 yr olds, no Jar Jar. I dont really agree with the video review, as I think they are not meant to be individual movies, but viewed as a set of 6 - unfortunatly the original's look more realistic then the prequals to watching them all back to back makes the eps1-3 feel quite fake with all that CGI. I did like the proposal of that video reviewer for the clones to be sort of a mutant Sith army wreaking havoc allowing Palpatine to rise up in power, that sounds awesome. I guess all those EU books might have meant Lucas felt cornered into a particular storyline which means the new ones do seem a bit of sell out from its artistic potential.

Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 12 Apr 2012 22:15 #56126

@Akkarin

Those videos are so damn funny. If I had a beverage next to my computer, it would be splashed all over my screen by now...

But, I will comment on a particular thing you said:

"There is also no fundamental subtle moral teachings in the prequels."

I guess it depends what you mean by subtle. One person's subtle is another person's deer in the headlights.

I can think of 3 off the top of my head (in no order of subtlety):

1) When Qui-Gon tells Anakin to quiet your mind and you'll feel the Force speaking to you.

I look it that as meditation and quieting your mind and closing out all the distraction around you. A good thing. A positive.

2) Yoda tells Anakin, "train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." That teaches us a lot and opens up many positive possibilities about fear and attachment

(One of my favorites below, and arguably the most subtle)

3) Qui-Gon is fighting Darth Maul and is starting to tire. He kneels to meditate while Darth Maul paces hungrily. That is an awesome scene to me. We have a Jedi Warrior that is facing someone that is just better/stronger/faster than he is. In his meditation and calming of his mind, he probably realizes, I'm gonna die here. But rather than turn tail and run, he gathers the strength that he has and rushes Darth Maul with everything he's got. He rushes Maul! I don't think he had expectations to live, but he was not going to cower against an enemy.

I think there are MANY lessons, moral and otherwise, subtle and otherwise, we can take from that scene alone.

But again, those videos had me laughing good. I am in debt to you as I will share them with my brothers who are also Star Wars fans.

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Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 12 Apr 2012 22:34 #56129

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Learn_To_Know wrote:
3) Qui-Gon is fighting Darth Maul and is starting to tire. He kneels to meditate while Darth Maul paces hungrily. That is an awesome scene to me. We have a Jedi Warrior that is facing someone that is just better/stronger/faster than he is. In his meditation and calming of his mind, he probably realizes, I'm gonna die here. But rather than turn tail and run, he gathers the strength that he has and rushes Darth Maul with everything he's got. He rushes Maul! I don't think he had expectations to live, but he was not going to cower against an enemy.

That's one of the first scenes I thought of when you said subtle teachings

What I probably should have said is that the originals had FAR MORE moral teachings and philosophical teachings

They are a lesson whereas the prequels are more of just a fancy shiny new film with flashing lights


I'm glad people have been enjoying them :)

redlettermedia is amazing! lol
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Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 13 Apr 2012 00:52 #56148

Hi all. My computer died on campus, so I didn't get to elaborate on what I mean. Here is why I disagree with you, Akkarin. (After all, I don't think it would be adequate if I just said I disagree without an explanation/forum bumper)

SeanChing wrote:
- A lot more talking and less action in general

- Yoda is a cackling idiot for the first few minutes you meet him

Akkarin wrote:
You obviously don't understand the entire point of the trilogy then


First of all, I admit that my first statement, less action and more talking, shows that I'm a little superficial about movies in general. However, I like to watch movies because they are exciting, so I don't see a huge problem when I complain that the OT wasn't that exciting.

My second point, however, I will heartily defend. (I'm interested to see if you will agree or try to rebuttal.)

I said that I thought a major flaw with the OT was that "Yoda is a cackling idiot for the first few minutes you meet him" and Akkarin said that I didn't understand the point of the trilogy then.


Actually, here's why I do.

1) Yoda contradicts himself by acting that way. At first, he acts all goofy and senile and seems as though he has completely lost his mind and is completely incoherent. "Ooh! My flashlight! *Hits R2*"
Then, shortly after, when he reveals his "true" self, he teaches Luke, "A Jedi Must have the most Serious of minds" (something like that). If a Jedi has to be so serious, then why was he acting like such a mindless derp?

Now some people have come up with a flawed explanation that "Yoda was testing Luke's patience", but I don't buy that. A test is (from my experience) structured and by the book so that the tester can test the testee's skills by isolating variables.

When Yoda is supposedly testing Luke, by acting foolish, he goes about it very freely and without thought - I don't even think George Lucas wrote a script for that part. It was just the Yoda voice talking nonsense and yelling "ooh, oh! woah!" and "my flashlight! *Hits R2"


Talk about about a bad Yoda Script. And you guys complain about the prequel's bad dialogue, hmm???


2) Here another way Yoda contradicts himself. Luke asks, "is the dark side stronger" and Yoda quickly says "no no no! Quicker, Easier, more seductive".

If the dark side is "quicker", then why did Yoda reply with such a hasty response?


To be honest, when I watched the Empire Strikes Back for the first time, many moons ago, I actually thought Yoda was on the dark side and tricking Luke. After all, he has that dark side cave (which can confuse new viewer's about Yoda's intentions)and his voice is very raspy which made me think he was evil at first.

Again, some sketchy dialogue in the OT.



Now personally, I love all six Star Wars movies, and I certainly love the OT. However, get real guys! The OT is very flawed, just like the prequels, so it shouldn't be attacked so much, in my humble opinion.


3) I think that one of the reasons why people hate the prequels and love the OT is that the prequels came second while the OT came first. The first movie (out of all movie series) usually gets all the credit, and the movie director can never get a same response for sequels.



Please continue debating, if you feel the urge to! I love to debate about controversial Star Wars topics, especially with you guys, because I know we can disagree and still be a friendly community =)
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Last Edit: 13 Apr 2012 00:56 by SeanChing.

Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 13 Apr 2012 01:19 #56150

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Warning; I love Yoda's character and will defend it to the death!!!

1.
Yoda was being non-threatening, vulnerable, and annoying, deliberatly to ascertain the nature of Luke's personality - remember this is first contact between them. Yoda's was giving Luke a reason to get angry, as many people cannot control their anger and have too short a fuse.

I think Yoda's action would be suitable whether he knew in advance from Obi-Wans Force spirit or premonition, or if he didnt know who this guy was crash landing in his backyard to determine how to deal with it.

I think it is am important lesson in the Jedi way that knowledge is important before making decisions about someone.

2.
I think its actually a quite enlightened response from Yoda. If we look at the Three Pillars of Star Ways Jedi in context of how the Jedi view the dark side as a selfish path, then;

Force - Quicker, connecting to the Force through oneself (selfish) might be quicker then by everything around you (Jedi)

Knowledge - Easier, knowing yourself is much easier then knowing about everything around you.

Self-Discipline - More seductive, self explanatory.

So to answer, I'd say Yoda is well learned in the dark side, and didnt need to think about the response, as evidenced by an immediate reply framed in the context of the Jedi Pillars. So not only is it not sketchy, it could be seen as educative!

I dont think Yoda owned the whole planet, and it might be why he chose to live where he did because there was a dark place nearby - to keep an eye on it and anyone who visits.

Go Yoda!
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Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 13 Apr 2012 08:34 #56162

I'm just going to mention the Yoda part.

He was alone, completely alone for 30 years there was no evidence of him communicating with Obi Wan either.

Anyway, if you try to spend even 30 days completely alone you'll go a little bit fruit loopy. Let alone 30 years.

Trust me. That was actually one of the more valid points plus don't we all love Yoda for his quirky behavior that no one can understand half the time? :P
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Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 13 Apr 2012 10:10 #56164

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SeanChing wrote:
1) Yoda contradicts himself by acting that way. At first, he acts all goofy and senile and seems as though he has completely lost his mind and is completely incoherent. "Ooh! My flashlight! *Hits R2*"
Then, shortly after, when he reveals his "true" self, he teaches Luke, "A Jedi Must have the most Serious of minds" (something like that). If a Jedi has to be so serious, then why was he acting like such a mindless derp?

2) Here another way Yoda contradicts himself. Luke asks, "is the dark side stronger" and Yoda quickly says "no no no! Quicker, Easier, more seductive".

If the dark side is "quicker", then why did Yoda reply with such a hasty response?

3) I think that one of the reasons why people hate the prequels and love the OT is that the prequels came second while the OT came first. The first movie (out of all movie series) usually gets all the credit, and the movie director can never get a same response for sequels.

1) Yoda hardly contradicts himself. He isn't crazy or weird, he's acting. He is putting on a show because he KNOWS it's Luke (he's a flipping grand master after all), and he wants to get a feel for Luke's persona before he reveals his identity. So he puts on an act, something to get Luke's guard down and avoid suspicion.

2) Of course Yoda responds hastily...look what happened to this kid's father! Yoda's naturally going to do his best to steer Luke clear of the Dark Side because he knows what that did to Luke's father. It was a natural "human" response.

3) A movie director can never get a same response for sequels? Honey, have you seen Empire Strikes Back? That sequel got more excitement out of the audience than A New Hope ever did. I know what you meant to say, but when it comes to Star Wars, it's one exception to the rule.

Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 13 Apr 2012 10:10 #56165

Sooo...interesting tpoic of debate. Hm.

Well, lemme rub everyone wrong (in a comical way) by stating a few things.

Firstly, I LOVED Epi I, II, III more than the originals. Sorry Folks. I got to see the Jedi Community before it got wiped out, I got to see Gen. Griveous, and let's not forget Hayden Christiansen (sp?) is pretty darn hawt. Which brings me into my second point...

Second: Ewan Mcgregor....hotness. There is NO way to get around the fact that the only reason I loved Obi-Wan on screen was because the actor who played him makes my heart flutter with teen girliness...Also, I think in Ep 1 when he showed emotions...oh man...I lost my brain temporarily because it's totally hot when hot guys cry. (I realize this makes me kinda shallow, but he's an actor so I don't think this counts)

Third: EPIC FIGHT SCENCE!!!!! Yoda v Dooku! (Need I say more? Or has your respect for Yoda grown just a little bit more?) I basically faint just thinking about that fight because of it's sheer awesome.

Fourth: Of the original SW Films (they were all good but I have pref's) Return of the Jedi was my favorite hands down. And I don't feel the need to justify that. Cause lemme tell ya, The Empire Strikes Back *yawn*


Don't get me wrong...I understand the story and messages and whathaveyou behind the entire film concept. For the genre and style and era difference, I don't think the writing was all that terrible. What was created was a masterpiece and I respect it as such. And even devling into the expanded universe which clarifies so much of the story from the films just makes me respect SW more. And the principles and lessons therein.

I am of the opinion that Shakk Ti is a rolemodel for all Female Jedi Masters. She is THE embodiment of grace, power, and IMO stunning Jedi beauty. If I could be 1/10th of the Jedi Master Shakk Ti was I would be honored!

So there's my 2 cents on the matter. Enjoy the scandal :D
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Re: Prequel Haters Gon Hate - But why? (BE nice...) 13 Apr 2012 11:02 #56171

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Personally, I recon that the prequel Trilogy is hated because it doesn't uphold Star Wars as a mythology. And while explaining the Force (Seriously? What for?) is not pretty, those are still some damn fine movies.

Let's look at the biggest duel in the old Trilogy, in Episode V. It seems too stiff for martial arts masters, who can control the world with their mind, doesn't it? Now, the Duel of Fates in Episode I is a true jaw-dropper, with John Williams' ingenious score and few seconds when Qui-Gon meditates; it's a real masterpiece, you've got to admit that.
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This is a little like non-action, which allows one to teach without words, perform without actions, succeed without striving. By letting things flow softly, gently, harmoniously, we allow our obstacles to be overcome without great exertions of strength or violence. By refusing to try, we succeed: and when we act, we already know we have achieved our goal. 44 Jedi prioritise. We realise well-being is more important than fame, and a life is more important than money. Similarly we understand the inherent danger in winning, as well as losing. We are wary of attachments to material things, which can become burdens. We know the value of letting go of material wealth so we never have to feel the bite of loss. In another sense, as has been discussed previously, Jedi know when something is enough. We don't do things to excess and understand that through moderation we won't over-exert ourselves unhealthily. 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If one follows the way of the Force, they are content to let nature take its course, for the fields to grow to abundance and for things to exist as they are. But if one strays from the path of the Force, they always want more: they grasp for possessions, territory or engage in conflict with others. They rip up the fields with war. As such Jedi understand that it's more important to know what's enough than to pursue absolute success in every situation. It's enough to get rid of fear to feel "safe". Possession, greed and desire are all fundamental misunderstandings of the nature of things. If we understand that the Force is one entity, one unity, then we understand that overall, what is is always enough. 47 The Force is right here. Jedi don't have to leave to know things about the rest of the world. Because we accept that we are part of the Force, and that its nature and our nature are the same thing in a real, practical sense we are content to reside where we are, work with what we have and appreciate what we've already got. We understand that because perceptions are false distinctions, we can see everything right where we are now. We can understand and feel the Force, and the Force is all there is. As such we realise we don't have to work for things to be achieved: it is already in the process of achieving. We simply have to let it happen. 48 Jedi focus on the Force. The less we engage with the objectifying "world" of everyday perceptions, the closer we come to the Force. As a species we tend to want new stimulus all the time, and to have new information, possessions, experiences every day. As Jedi we learn to let go of received information, possessions and experiences because all of these are illusions which divide us from the unity and harmony of things. As such we do less, until we reach the point of "doing" nothing at all. Only then can things flow as they should. We cease to be obstructions and thereby become one with the path. The best way that things can turn out is the way they turn out. Look at the past: it happened. The future will happen too. Don't waste time thinking about what might have been or could be. Ambitions are usually as delusional as the idea our past "might have" been different. It wasn't. Instead, think about what's happening now and the rest will take care of itself. Trust the Force. 49 Jedi are not stubborn. We don't have a set map of what or how we'll behave, but we do what needs to be done. We help others rather than hurting them in the name of a fixed ideal. We are good to everyone, even "bad" people, because we recognise that everyone and everything is one in the Force. We have faith in all that is, including those who do us wrong. Because we're open, we're able to engage with things which happen to a far greater extent than others. Think of it like a cup: if we carve a small cup, we get to keep most of our wood intact and can hold a little of whichever juice comes around. But if we carve a deep cup, we give up the old wood and make a big open space, meaning we can fully enjoy and appreciate each juice we are presented with. It can fill us up because we were empty to receive it. By becoming open, we experience things fully without distraction or distortion. And because of this enthusiasm and exuberance for whatever it is which happens to be filling our consciousness, we become examples for others. We show that the untrustworthy can be trusted. We demonstrate the wonder of reality. 50 Death, yet the Force. Even in life we must understand we are moving towards death, just as when someone dies we must understand they are not gone, but moving forward towards new (or perhaps it's better to say "different") life. If we understand we are one with the universe and that we can't be obliterated in any real sense, that we can't be removed from the Force or stop being part of it, we become invulnerable. If we do things fully, honestly, without effort and as the Force wills it, Jedi need not fear death any more than the hard-working person need fear their bed at the end of a tiring day. Death is inevitable, but it's only part of the ongoing Force. 51 The Force is something different to all creatures. This is related to Verse 41: we must learn to understand and expect for each person and creature to be unique and individual, because each is shaped by the area of the Force they spring from. The Force is vastly complex at a perceptual level so all things are perceived as very different; the truth is, everything is still just one thing, the unity, the all-that-is we call the Force. Different things fulfil their roles in different ways, but all express an aspect of the Force. In turn, it watches over them, gives them life and strength and helps them to grow. It soothes them and protects them. It gives us a model for teaching or creating anything. The Force does its work without the expectation of reward. It does work and then lets it go. This is like a leader who never gives orders: the leader is there to aid the led, but works in the moment at hand and doesn't get bogged down in specifics. 52 The Force is the only source. Everything came from it, and all things necessarily return to it. There's no path which is not contained with it, and no road which did not start at the start of the Force. We're used to seeing distinct objects but that doesn't mean these weren't built "from" something else. A good way to remain content is to cultivate an awareness that perception and subdivision is illusory: that everything has a "mother" which we all share, the Force. It's like the phrase "see with your heart". If we try to perceive the Force directly it's like trying to stare into darkness, or smell a sound. But we can learn to feel the Force from the very core of ourselves, from our hearts. Once we do, we'll know it's there. We can learn to understand ourselves as small leaves growing on one large tree; to sway and yield to the winds without "breaking"; and to remember that tree is one entity, for all eternity. 53 Following the Force is always right. There are plenty of distractions available to us at all times, but none of them lead anywhere meaningful. At the base level, we will all die. Thus any effort expended on anything other than the Force to which we shall return is spurious and wasteful. But in another sense, all that is good and beneficial to us in this life is harmonious with the Force. It's right to live in a balanced and simple way, because excess and extravagance create their own problems. When we've spent all our time accumulating treasure, what's left to eat? Some of the things to avoid include wasting money on weapons for manufacturing conflict, or encouraging an elite upper class to hoard great wealth and riches at the expense of all others. Owning more than we can use is a type of theft and counter to the spirit of the Force. All this sort of approach achieves is misery and chaos. 54 The Force endures through generations. Remaining centred in the Force makes Jedi hard to sway. Returning to that analogy of being a small leaf on a vast tree, there is great strength in retaining those giant roots back to where we come from, and also understanding that tomorrow's new shoots still spring from the same roots. Understanding this, our centre will never slip away but remain in place for generations, just like leaves on the tree. It is clear that we don't only come into understanding of the Force for ourselves, but also for the generations who follow, including our own families. But further than this we can put our communities and countries into touch with the Force. We can inspire harmony on a global scale and encourage those who will to hear our message of unity, allowing them to decide for themselves if they can see the connectedness of all things. But this huge change begins with one person's decision to know their true nature, and thereby unlock the key to all reality. Just as the leaf must understand its stalk before it can realise it is part of a mighty tree, so must we understand our own connection before we can begin to understand the wider Force. 55 Jedi minds are like the minds of children. We are like babies, open and in harmony with life. Babies are natural Jedi, in tune with how things really are. Even their skulls are soft, which lets them take life's knocks without too much damage. Because they flow with the changes of things, it's hard for them to be hurt by them. Their muscles are weak, but they have a tight grip - that's all they need at that stage of their lives. They're just as ready as they need to be for whatever comes next. Babies can also shout all day without getting hoarse, so they can even outperform us when relevant. The harmony of a baby is complete. The constancy of this harmony endures because it's all the baby knows - all the baby can know. This is a source of illumination for us all. Like a baby, Jedi expect nothing, so are never disappointed. Things come, things go, and Jedi let them. In this way our spirit remains like a baby, and never has to grow old. By remaining in touch with the Force, we never die. 56 Wisdom speaks for itself. Those who talk usually don't know what they're talking about, and those who do know are either silent or already acting. Like them, if one hopes to follow a path of wisdom it's better to be quiet and observe things rather than constantly talking. We let go of the worries which close us off from the truth and stay on the sidelines, which give us the best view of what's going on. We must stay in the world if we want to understand it, rather than wandering off down some obscure path of study. As such, we find the middle ground in all things. We simplify. We untie the knots and blunt the knives, become one with the light, one with the dust. We remember what we are. Once we reach an understanding of things, we aren't concerned with praise or blame. We move beyond winning and losing, honour or disgrace. All we care about are things as they are, and that's the correct way to live life. 57 The Force presents a model of leadership. It's possible to run a country by engaging in hostility, winning wars and playing politics; but one gains far more without surplus effort, struggle or striving. The more restrictive a nation, the poorer and more unhappy its citizens become. When all the focus is on hoarding weapons, people become habituated to violence and that causes both internal and external problems. Conniving leaders can't truly help people; their misdirection and half-truths only spin further and further out of control. Laws pile up in order to keep things going as they would like, but in the end all this creates is a whole nation of outlaws. As such Jedi quietly allow people to transform themselves, and learn to do the right thing of their own natural volition. Jedi stay out of the way of what is right. Allowing the world to seem good rather than hostile in nature, Jedi promote a perspective where what's good is the norm. 58 Good leaders encourage simplicity. If a government is harsh and bureaucratic, people will have to add complexity to their lives in order to undermine and outwit it. The fact is we must accept some bad things in life, and no amount of legislation will prevent us from being unhappy sometimes. Better to keep things simple, and to invest more in increasing happiness than in reducing sadness. Sadness will find a way through whatever we manage to do, and by understanding this we become free. At the same time we'd be unwise to think we could survive without any guiding hands. Chaos is never too far away from the order we depend upon: what we must do is be a quiet word, a gentle hand guiding things along in the simplest and least authoritarian way possible. One of the best ways of doing this is in serving as an example to others. That way we achieve what needs to be achieved without exerting undue energy, and, crucially, without becoming mired in wholly counter-productive complexity. 59 Jedi lead through moderation. We are like farmers tending a field, living simply and sparingly, responding quickly to the needs of that which we cultivate and calmly overcoming what must be overcome in order to produce a successful harvest. This idea can be used from the smallest to the largest things in life and it corresponds to all our enterprises. In this way we can become the leaders of a country, nourishing and supporting everyone. We are the roots which bind the people together because we remain conscious of the unity of all people, all things, and this allows our leadership to be long, productive and far-reaching. By having firm, deep roots, Jedi remain clear to the truth of things; we see the Force as it is, rather than worrying about ideas and concepts which are illusion. We make use of whatever's available and then, once our work is done, let go. 60 Treating things appropriately prevents harm. This is even true of leadership: the best way to lead a large country is to treat it as though one is cooking a small fish. If we poke it around in the pan too much it will fall apart and then we won't have much of anything. But if we give it the time it needs and carefully attend it without interfering too much, it doesn't take things long to start to be productive. The Force creates great harmony in the world, and when the mood of a nation is in tune with it, even evil things seem less evil because they can no longer harm people. Jedi are part of the country, and by doing no harm and feeling no harm done to us, we deomnstrate the idea of "harm" is unnecessary. All is one in the Force. Even harm is just change. Understanding this, that they can't come to harm in any real sense, people will begin to do what's right without coercion. 61 Power tends to grow. If someone suddenly gains power, they gain the opportunity to supplement that power as a result of their success. But they must be careful to retain their humility, to trust in the Force and therefore not become defensive. Accepting and admitting mistakes, as well as facing criticism with good humour is essential not just for people but for organisations as well. A great country is formed on the principle of serving and protecting its people. This is especially evident in small countries where there are only a few people and the nation is set up to serve their interests directly. This is the way of the Force: when the organisation serves its members, everything is as it should be. If a powerful force can yield to a small single element, it is expressing a fundamental appreciation of the unity of part and whole. Jedi understand an enemy is like a shadow we ourselves cast. 62 The Force is refuge for everyone. Good or bad, we can find solace and comfort in the all-encompassing, all-pervading Force. We can't gain more or less "Forcehood" through money or theft, and as such the Force is a great leveller. Jedi are no more "of" the Force than ordinary people, criminals or murderers. If one wishes to benefit someone, they should not pledge weapons or wealth, nor even expertise in some skill; instead they should offer to teach them of the ways of the Force. This is the greatest gift one can give, the gift of knowing one's own true nature and the wisdom that flows forth from this understanding. If we have an understanding of the Force, we will never make a mistake which we can't recover from, because we understand that in the Force, all is one. 63 Jedi do without doing. This is the familiar idea of wu-wei, of acting without striving and achieving things with the minimum possible effort by waiting for the opportune moment, doing just what needs to be done and acting without excessive drama or excitement. If one approaches a problem when it first appears, it is only a small problem and is easily solved, rather than left to become a worrisome chore. Jedi know to break down a huge undertaking into smaller, manageable steps. Because we don't jump straight at the distant goal, we end up getting there. We accept that difficulties will and must beset our path at times, and know these to be opportunities to learn, to grow and to improve our understanding. We know that promises and plans tend to fall by the wayside whatever our intentions and prefer to keep things simple so we are open and ready for whatever comes with our whole hearts. When difficulties emerge we give ourselves to them; because we don't cling to comfort in this way, we find our problems are not even things to overcome, just necessary steps on the path. Jedi know that everything has inherent difficulties, so nothing is truly difficult. 64 Jedi use the opportune moment. We know that something which is new is easy to change, and something which is old is easy to maintain. What's brittle can be broken and what's small can be scattered. We appreciate the inherent qualities of everything as we find it and this allows us to use everything to its strength, which is the way of the Force. A giant tree grows from a tiny seed, and the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Instead of rushing headlong towards our goals, Jedi pace ourselves and reach things in their natural time, without exertion or excess. We don't grasp because that only leads to losing things. We don't rush things and only pick the fruit of our labour when it is ripe - one can still spoil something by taking one's time but then rushing the point of completion. We let things follow their course, trust in the Force to provide all we need to live, to grow and to be content. We have nothing and hence have nothing to lose. All we want is not to want: all we learn is there's nothing to know. Because we care only about the Force, we care about all things. 65 Jedi keep things simple. There's a lot of stress on people to be clever and cunning, but this isn't a positive thing in a leader. Too much cleverness can alienate people, but everyone can understand something if it is simple enough. If things flow simply, everyone can understand them. Because we avoid complexity, Jedi avoid messing things up through overcomplicating them; those who know too much already can't be taught new things, or if they can the process of unlearning can take great effort. Jedi are thus open-minded, focussed on the task at hand in the present moment. We seek to simplify knowledge into wisdom. This is one of the fundamental elements of the Force, that in keeping things simple we remain nearest the true nature of things as they really are. What is more simple than one thing? And this unity and oneness penetrates every level of existence, so when we bring our actions into line with it we tap into the same creative, transformative power. By living simple, ordinary lives, we serve as examples that even with a deep understanding of the whole universe, what is best is simple, familiar, normal. 66 The Force is like an ocean. All it does is remain there, and rivers flow into it. All it must do to receive what they bring is not move, which is why everything thrown into a river inexorably makes its way into the sea. In the same way, those who need to be listened to must talk like the people they speak to. They must not set themselves up in ivory towers and never move amongst the people; they must show they are ordinary, available, relatable. Jedi find out where the people around us want to go, and get there first to show we understand. We become examples and teach actively, by doing rather than just by talking or theorising. We don't fight the current but accept it, work with it, nudge it if necessary. This can often mean a compromise, which is a harmonious way of working. People want to feel safe and listened to without being smothered. A leader who understands and respects this will gain their trust. Jedi don't compete with anyone, and thus never lose competitions. 67 The Force and the Jedi path can seem ridiculous. Many laugh at it and some find it completely impractical, but those who have considered it sincerely and honestly can feel its resonance inside themselves. Compared to our habitual perception of things, it is nonsensical, yet it makes perfect sense and resonates deeply with us. That shows that our ordinary ideas of reality are in fact the nonsensical ones. By putting these teachings into practice, anyone can experience their veracity. There are three core lessons: Simplicity, Patience and Compassion. These are great allies. By remaining simple in action and thought, we return to the source of everything, the Force. By being patient, we show we accept the way things are and must be. And through compassion (including compassion towards ourselves), we reconcile all the diverse and distinct objects in the world into a single unity. 68 Jedi avoid conflict. Vengeance, violence and aggression are not helpful tools. Jedi understand that sometimes we find ourselves in situations where we are tested against other people. We thrive in situations where our best is matched by the best of others; competition involves weakening or subduing others, but Jedi seek to let the authentic, honest and sincere sentiment of every action meet equally sincere actions from other people, even if this is seemingly in conflict. There is no conflict - there are merely aspects of the Force coming together in a display of "Forcefulness". The true warrior is not aggressive but skilful, doing just what needs to be done without additional showmanship or excessive brutality. Likewise the true victor does not seek vengeance but accepts the outcome of things as they are. A leader is not violent and shows respect to those they serve. This expresses the value of modesty as the best way to interact with people. As has been discussed already, the Force is humble and if we desire to act in accordance with the Force, we are best to retain our own humility. Only in operating this way can we bring our actions in line with the Force. We can't hope to lead others if we think of them as less than us, or ours to push around: don't forget we are one and the same in the Force. 69 Jedi exercise restraint. When unsure, it is better to retreat than to advance. Wise military commanders know this: that it is best to repel an enemy without directly opposing them, and that a retreat can achieve this better than a blind advance. It's better to stay put and prepare ourselves for whatever comes than seek out into an unknown which could be full of danger. Jedi understand that underestimating an opponent is unwise and can lead to negative outcomes; one of these is thinking one's opponent an evil, stupid or pathetic person. In doing so we forget our unity with even apparent opponents and enter the mindset of competition. Such an act of underestimation means giving up on simplicity, patience and compassion. Better to stick to these three core principles and trusting that with time, care and attention things will become clearer and the opportune moment will present itself. The truth is that when sides are taken, the "victor" is the one who knows how to yield. If we retain our compassion and understanding that our enemy is just like us, is our enemy only because of us (like the aforementioned shadow of Verse 61), then we overcome even the conflict itself. The "winner" is the one who doesn't want to fight. 70 Jedi are realistic. We know even the clearest wisdom can't be followed completely, at all times. Humans can understand these ideas and move closer into line with this conception of things, but the reality is we all have moments where we stray from this path. It's part of our nature and the nature of the Force that things happen this way, and therefore not something to feel bad about - rather one should retain a balanced perspective that doing a little is better than making no attempt at all. Because only a few will come close to the meaning of the Force in their lives, the book (which isn't subject to the same foibles) remains a valuable guide to the path of wisdom which is far purer than a human could ever truly be. Jedi thus often wear plain clothes and make no announcement of our wisdom. We will do what's right whenever we can and let that speak for itself. 71 Jedi are self-aware. Knowing the limits of our wisdom is true wisdom. If we don't maintain this awareness and start making assertions we can't back up, one comes into difficulties. Happily it's simple to clear oneself of this misapprehension: we have to reject anything we're not sure of. We have to find fault with our own faults; we have to learn to know ourselves. Eventually, we move to emptiness, to open perception without judgement or preconception to muddy the water. This is how we all start on the path to true wisdom, because every one of us has preconceptions before we learn the truth of the Force. 72 Authority is restrictive. As such, Jedi do not seek to lead through authority. We seek to lead people to their own understanding, and to cultivate their own wisdom rather than receiving ours. How can one person tell another their true nature? This is something we can only learn about ourselves. Thus ideas such as religious dogma and hierarchical organisations draw people away from a true experience of their own nature. As such, Jedi take a step back and clear away the confusion we may cause. We operate without fences, borders or wearing others down to our way of seeing things. We are content to quietly know and love ourselves as an expression of the Force without trying to insist others see it as well. We teach without dictating reams of words, and reveal to people that our role is not so much to learn as to unlearn; not so much to become complete as to dismantle what they've already built. 73 Jedi act as required. It is brave to be bold, and brave to be careful too. The bold die, the careful survive. Who can say which is preferable in the final analysis? We can't know which is better, but we do know how the Force works. Because it doesn't push, it always has space to act. Because it can't be called upon or summoned, it appears when the time is right. It reacts without acknowledging the initial action. This suggests we must do what is necessary, rather than deciding "today I will be bold!" or "today I will take great care". The Force works because it is empty; there is space available for whatever comes. Like a net, it can seem full of holes: but also like a net, it always captures everything it needs. 74 All that happens is of the Force. Accepting death is crucial to understanding our role as part of the wider Force. People die, and if we accept this as a natural change we can no longer be threatened. Even the worst that received wisdom can threaten us with is simply part of the natural order. Understanding we will inevitably die and this is right and natural according to the way of the Force is thus a pathway to complete liberation. However we must take care not to use our own diminished fear of death as a tool to control those who still fear it; taking up the executioner's axe is likely to result in nothing more productive than accidentally chopping off our own heads. 75 Authority interrupts the natural order. Because people are hungry, authority taxes more. This makes more people hungry. Because people rebel, authority tightens its grip. This makes people rebel more. Because people feel their lives are meaningless, they're not afraid to kill or to die. This is why authority is a dangerous tool, and why it's best to leave people to govern themselves where possible. Those who learn to enjoy life, and to value the path of least effort as the most natural one display more wisdom than those who seek to cut themselves off from the way things are; these people are the authority in their own lives, and are thus creating more harm than good. Internal barriers are self-defeating: by building them at all, we are inviting ourselves to overthrow them. 76 Jedi are soft and yielding. That is the path of life: we are born soft and supple as a baby and end stiff and hard as a corpse. Plants live through their pliancy and flexibility, and are hard stalks and brittle branches in death. To be flexible is to be a disciple of the Force. What is brittle will break; what is supple will endure. Soldiers trained to fight to the death will be cut down in their thousands, and the tallest trees are the first to be cut down. This is one reason the Force endures: it knows how to yield. This echoes the phrase "the bigger they are, the harder they fall". Jedi do not seek to be big, only to be simple, empty and flexible. 77 The potential of the Force is like a bow. To use it, we draw from the middle. The top bends down, the bottom curves up, and all the energy is focused at the centre. The bow requires this balance of things in order to work, and when all is balanced in this way, the potential energy is far greater than then these elements are further out from the centre. Similarly to a bow, when these elements align the energy they generate can travel great distances towards a target. Jedi understand that to use energy means taking it from elsewhere. Most people take it from where there's just enough and so create deficiency with their actions. Jedi only seek to balance the energy of the world - we give energy where it is needed and take it from where there is a surplus. If energy flows freely and consistently through all things, Jedi do nothing at all. This is the same idea as getting the job done simply and not being concerned with credit. 78 The nature of the Force is like water. Like water, it is soft and yielding yet can wear away the hardest stone; it is persistent and consistent in its approach to things. We can adopt this approach and overcome things which are stronger than ourselves. We can be flexible and circumvent that which is hard. This is not new insight, but most people don't or can't apply it to their lives. For example, everyone knows that in helping people with their mundane, day-to-day problems we gain their trust; but Jedi understand it is by dealing with the problems of the world, such as imbalances of energy within the wider Force, that we become truly useful. By refusing to join the herd and remaining focused on how things truly are, we become the solid foundations which others can hold on to. 79 Failure is an opportunity. It is inevitable that we fail sometimes and Jedi know that we must see failures and setbacks as vital learning opportunities. Why else would the Force bring us failure, if not to give us some lesson about our own deficiencies or excesses? It is therefore a mistake to blame someone else in the event of a failure. If something goes wrong and it affects us, what could we have done differently? What will we do differently next time? Thinking this way means we don't ask others to take the blame for mistakes we ourselves could have mitigated. We don't hold hurtful grudges or focus on what is "owed" to us; instead we focus on what we owe. Jedi are therefore responsible in the face of failure: rather than engaging in an endless, useless game of passing the buck, we reflect and learn valuable lessons, and thus secure success in our future endeavours. 80 Small communities can achieve great contentment. We can easily imagine a simple community which doesn't need new approaches or the latest machines to survive, doesn't motivate members of its community to leave to discover new things, and doesn't require a lot of effort and work to maintain. Such a community can dress plainly, eat simple foods, continue their traditions and remain comfortable. Even having other communities nearby would not motivate them to leave; because they had everything they needed, no superficial desires arise in their minds and they are content to live and die in the same peaceful spot. Temptation becomes an alien concept when everyone has just enough; just enough is all we need. 81 Truth is not always beautiful. Be wary of beautiful words because they often camouflage an unpleasant reality. Those who are wise don't need to dress it up or argue about it. Qualifications don't make someone wise. We should look beyond mere appearances in all aspects of life. Jedi have few possessions and as such have less to worry about. The more we can give to others, the happier we are. The more we give to others, the wealthier we become. The less we have, the more what we do have means to us. "For it is in giving that we receive..." Jedi understand that we can nurture harmony without forcing it, and encourage people without hurting them. This is the way of the Force.
    • Elite: Dangerous (Last post by Ilyowh Eclipseblast)
    • I play it from time to time, this is actually a cool beta. I personally use an X52 and vocal commands using VoiceAttack, enjoying it so far. :side:
    • The Journies of Gypsy Jon (Last post by Kohadre)
    • It has been an eventful couple of weeks since my last update in this journal. At my parents suggestion, I went to the local hospital, and requested I be admitted to their psych ward for an evaluation. I had to explain the reasons I was there to at least 10 people, who took notes but never passed them on to the next person so that I didn't have to keep repeating myself (Maybe they threw them in the trash?). I ended up being admitted to the hospital around 5:00am on Saturday, after having gone in the night before around 10:00pm, and waiting the night in their holding area for psychiatric patients. I arrived at the psych ward around 5:30am on Saturday morning, and decided to try and stay up the rest of the day so that I would be able to sleep through the night and maintain a regular sleep schedule. During breakfast (around 8:00am on Saturday), I had an elderly female patient steal part of my breakfast, place trash on my plate, and then grab ahold of me. I took what was left of my meal and ate in my room. This woman had regular outbursts throughout the day, such as tossing liquid on other patients, pissing herself in retaliation for not getting her way, screaming and yelling, swearing, stealing patients food, and swearing (This continued throughout my entire stay in the psych ward). I assumed once night arrived that she would quiet down for the evening and go to bed (no fucking chance). She screamed all night long at regular intervals, which, on top of staff coming into my room every 15 minutes and shining a flashlight in my face to make sure I was breathing, made it very difficult to sleep. During my first few days in the hospital, I was trying to get my medications which I had been taking prior to arriving in the psych ward. On Sunday afternoon (I arrived Friday evening), I was told by the on-call doctor that my medications would not be refilled as she believed "They weren't at a therapeutic dose". I went the remainder of the week without medication and remained relatively stable. I spent my 25th birthday in the hospital, which was Monday the 18th of August. My family and girlfriend made the day as special for me as it could have possibly been given the circumstances I was in and the limitations placed upon us by hospital staff. They brought me in cake, cards, and presents, and I requested they take the cards and gifts home so as to prevent them from being stolen by other patients or even staff. The day after (Tuesday), was an important day for me both in the hospital, and as an day in my overall life. I opened up to my parents, and informed them of my molestation at the hands of a black man as a child, while living in Pennsylvania. After doing this, I immediately felt a sense of relief and inner calm as I no longer carried this in the manner which I had for decades. I also spoke with my assigned psychiatrist for the second time on Tuesday, and informed him that it was irritating when he talked over me and interrupted me when I was trying to say something, which he continued to do even after I mentioned it. I even called my family to express my concern, however they (in my opinion) side stepped it by suggesting I find reading materials on the subjects I was concerned about and had wanted to discuss with my doctor. On Wednesday, I found out that my psychiatrist had advised my parents that it was in my best interest, and the interest of my parents, that I not be allowed to return to and continue to live at home. I also found out that my parents had agreed with this advisement, and had made the decision to remove me from their house. The thing that bothered me most about this was not that I was being "kicked-out", but instead that I had to find this out from my psychiatrist instead of my parents. I also spoke with my doctor on Wednesday and said I would be willing to try and go back on medications to see if my condition improved at all, as I had started to become irritated, agitated, and upset as a result of my experiences on the psych ward and worsening of my condition. I expressed some concerns about the medications I was prescribed by my doctor with my parents, and they agreed with those concerns. They additionally suggested I ask for a diagnosis based on my condition at the present time I was in the hospital. Once it reached the time when medications were distributed on Wednesday night, I decided not to take the ones I was prescribed due to unaddressed concerns which I wanted to discuss with my doctor the following day. On Thursday, I spoke with the psychiatrist again, and requested I be diagnosed based on my present condition. He re-diagnosed me with the same condition I came into the hospital to address, and informed me he would not release me from the psych ward unless I took the medications he had prescribed me. I agreed to take the medications in order to get out and remain stable once I was out, and my condition started to improve almost immediately after taking them. Fast forward to Monday. The psychiatrist spoke with me again and informed me that I might be able to leave that day, or on Tuesday. To be honest, I didn't have much hope that I would be released in the timeline he had estimated. Additionally, after being informed of my upcoming release from the hospital, I started to become uncertain about where exactly I was going to end up after leaving, and what I could expect upon arriving to that unknown place. On Tuesday, I spoke with the psychiatrist again (I skipped recreation therapy in order to make sure I saw him that afternoon). After meeting with him, he informed me that he would not be comfortable releasing me into a homeless shelter. He also asked if there was any way my parents would allow me to return home, and I informed him that was not an option (Reminder: the psychiatrist advised my parents not to allow me back home). I called my parents to discuss some things with them on Tuesday night, and they informed me of their advocacy to try and get me into stable housing, and were very upset that I was going to end up in a homeless shelter. On Wednesday night, the woman who had made my life, and the lives of all the patients and staff on the psych ward a living hell, was moved off the unit and into a full-blown psychiatric center (funny farm), where I expect she will remain for the rest of her natural life. I felt surprisingly calm and at ease given my circumstances and what I thought I could expect once being released from the hospital. At the time, I was unsure if it was just a strong resolve, or not fully understanding or appreciating the severity of the circumstances with which I would be dealing. The thought also occurred to me that I could either turn this series of events into what many would consider to be a fairytale, or I could choose to allow myself to be consumed by the abyss. On my last night on the psych ward, one of the patients broke her door in an outrage at having been woken up during checks (The staff would come into your room ever 15 minutes and shine a flashlight in your face to make sure you were still breathing). The staff gave her what we patients referred to as "The shot". That place deserves itself. On Thursday, I was released from the hospital, and my Dad helped me get my prescriptions for the medications I needed to take. Unfortunately, the hospital pharmacy did not have one of the medications I needed, so my Dad went to another pharmacy and got a partial prescription (Which was left at the shelter I am currently staying in). Upon arriving at the shelter I was referred to, I was registered as a "resident", and assigned a bed. I was also given the chance to take a hot shower, and eat a warm meal, which really helped my morale given the situation. In the evening, I attended a service held at the shelters chapel (although I don't believe). Friday was my first official day of homelessness. I got a ride down to my parents house, and picked up some essential things I would need such as a sleeping bag, clothing, hygiene products, backpack & rain cover, water bladder, and various other essentials. I also stopped by a local shop and picked up a pair of "push daggers" I had ordered shortly before my stay in the hospital, which will help me feel safer by having a means of protecting myself if god forbid, I ever was forced into a situation where I had to. I also walked a couple blocks and picked up the remainder of the prescription which my father had placed for me, and fortunately it cost nothing additional out of pocket. On my was there, I saw one of the famous painted "public" pianos, with a wedding going directly across the street from it. After walking back to the shelter and going through my pack, I noticed it had a very large tear in one of the pockets that exposed the main section of the bag. I am hoping that it holds up for me, and if not, that I can manage an emergency repair using a small roll of duck tape I have. I also remembered I had around $16.00 in my wallet, which is really the last bit of cash I have as my bank account is in the red around $100.00 due to auto-billing overdrawing my account. One thing I learned I had to make a priority, was to get more water in my system. I would estimate I drank around 1l-1.5l of water my first day out, which isn't nearly enough as the body needs around 3l of water in warm/hot climates with heavy physical activity added to the equation. I also trimmed down the "fat" of my backpack that evening, so that I could reduce the weight and carry only what I absolutely needed. And now I am at a public library typing all this up. I will keep you updated as things happen. -Jon
    • Recurring Dreams (Last post by SeventhSL)
    • Interesting dream Adder. I've had similar dreams a couple of times. They are not recurring, vivid or anything but they really leave me with a horrible feeling. Funny thing is it is always after I have had a period where I haven't been the best partner. Work stress, lack of communication, etc has been taking its toll on the relationship. It's kind of like my subconscious feels like I should be doing a better job and so expects some kind of retaliation from my partner hence the dream. They even stop happening once I lift my act. Not saying this is your case by any means. Just sharing as it might ring true for others.
    • The Imperishable Gem (Last post by Alexandre Orion)
    • "If language was given to men to conceal their thoughts, then gesture's purpose was to disclose them." ~ John Napier, Hands ,1980, p. 166
    • Is Consciousness A State Of Matter, Like a Solid, ... (Last post by Gisteron)
    • The reason I ask about necessary conditions to identify consciousness is because with plants you already accepted that a brain isn't one. We may assume a body would be. Now, if the capacity for choice is not a requirement, plants would be conscious by that definition (even the ones eating insects or turning themselves towards the sun never display the capacity to choose otherwise), but by the same token every rock would be conscious, too. One may then move the target and say that only living things (by the biological definition) can be conscious, and why would one make that arbitrary distinction? Besides, how many would object to hearing the earth is not a conscious unit? On the other hand, if displayed capacity for choice is a requirement, that leaves us with only a small subset of living things, namely animals with a nervous system so complex that we no longer are able to track the necessary and unavoidable processes and are left attributing the outcome to what we perceive as a conscious choice of one thing over another. All of procaryotic life, few-celled organisms, fungi, plants and polyps, sponges and corals and a number of other animal types I can't recall from the top of my head would have to be excluded from the set of known conscious beings on earth. In a sense it does only come back to definitions. But then how can we reasonably discuss any statement unless we establish a framework to work from and make the statement specific enough to be adressed ;)
    • Cultural misappropriation (Last post by ren)
    • Not exactly "cultural misappropriation" (as if culture belongs to anyone lol), but another good example of how people will be offended by anything: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737867...s-rare-disorder.html
    • Prophetic Dreams (Last post by Koji)
    • Hello fam! I sound just about the same as you I had a time in my life maybe 2 or 3 months where I had a bunch of dreams. Now when something important happens in my life I remember the dream and I know that I am on the right path. Perhaps I should meditate on them to see what it is that I was told. When I was reading the original post by Rickie the grey, I heard, "do not try to control these gifts but let them flow through you" so release control and you will see something amazing. Adder, it is grate that you can totally pic up on the ripples of time, meditate and see what comes to you, bring peace with you always and bliss out, reach out to the ripples and see if that peace doesn't help out. =) forms of peace= happy(ness)= hopeful norm. forms of distress= compressed emotions/energies= need for decompression Answer: identification, interpretation, (solution=action+reaction=outcome) advice, release attachment to outcome with understanding and love.

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