Jedi Pyramid

But we already have Courses for training, the most in-depth I've ever participated in, (and I am a member of every force/Jedi group worth mentioning...)

Tao Te Ching 22

If you want to become whole,
let yourself be partial.
If you want to become straight,
let yourself be crooked.
If you want to become full,
let yourself be empty.
If you want to be reborn,
let yourself die.
If you want to be given everything,
give everything up. The Master, by residing in the Tao,
sets an example for all beings.
Because he doesn't display himself,
people can see his light.
Because he has nothing to prove,
people can trust his words.
Because he doesn't know who he is,
people recognise themselves in him.
Because he has no goal in mind,
everything he does succeeds. When the ancient Masters said,
"If you want to be given everything, give everything up,"
they weren't using empty phrases.
Only in being lived by the Tao can you be truly yourself.

Do you? I want you to take a good look at what some of the people in this very thread have said- if the curriculum made it's mark you would not have so many people creating statements like "As stated by you, defining the force is individual, so is the exact definition occasion Jedi, no?". In most of the threads where we talk about what it means to be a Jedi, ON TOTJO, we have gotten nothing more than "Stating your a Jedi, makes you a Jedi." In one of those threads, the founder came out and looked at it like "Are you serious?! HERE is what makes you a Jedi, there are standards, don't tell me there aren't standards!" *slams gavel*

This is the same problem across the boards. Kitsu (bless her heart) wants everyone to be able to meet impractical standards. All Jedi need to be Lifeguard certified (because she knows a Jedi that saved the life of a little boy from drowning due to his training), all Jedi must be able to run 3 miles (because her husband had to in the cold winter snow to get gas for the car while a friend stayed there freezing but really couldn't go very far because of her wedding clothes), all Jedi must learn a Martial Art (because the Jedi in the movies learned them-admittedly until I picked up the Jedi Path I was pretty much set on this one myself...so I guess Star Wars material did do some good and helped me change my mind), all Jedi must take up another physical art such as Gymnastics or Yoga to keep themselves limber (honestly, I'm not 100% sure why she put that one in), all Jedi must also be able to pass a PT test (which is taken over the course of everyday for a full month)...need I go on how expansive she wants the standards to become? I think by now you get the point on how much this is racking up in ridiculousness.

Then we had community-wide talks on what sorts of course work Jedi should be required to undertake. The final outline looked like this (and just while I'm at it, I'll go into how much length the FA went into fulfilling this outline):

Decision Making & Problem Solving
"The Force" (written)
Stress Management (almost complete, we're still including it)
Know Thyself (in the process of researching and producing a system)
Emotion Management/Intelligence (covers Stress Management, and is almost complete)
Aiding Emergency Services (Originally called Aiding Law Enforcement; written)
Physical Fitness (slightly revised from a MUCH earlier document that predates 2005, by LJM Mark Faulkner)
Psychological First Aide (of which FA and RJE have a curriculum, though both are very different from one another)
Meditation (there is an entire book, which is for sale, written on this one called "Meditation Journal for Force Realists"- it is however available as a PDF for ONLY students at the FA. A promise I gave the order when I wrote the curriculum, all proceeds for the book go to funding Jedi Gatherings...not that I've gotten much out of it...maybe $50)
Leadership (Written)
Conflict Resolution
Communication
Critical Thinking
First Aide & CPR (CPR requires legal certification from external sources outside of the Jedi Community) (For First Aide, however, we are using the Army Manual on First Aide)

(side note: We will be keeping the material at the FA which is already produced [minus the First Aide and CPR requirements], and 1-2 more which are not written. AES will become an optional course under the new system, the rest will be required for character development and understanding. Physical Fitness may or may not get nixed entirely)

Allow me to explain why using all of that as a standard for basic training ended up getting looked at and scrutinized by the very person pushing to get it all written up. I looked at three orders. One bases their entire curriculum on the Jedi Circle (Opie's order). One does not require you to go through the initiate's training before you can claim to be a Jedi (ToTJO). And the last one has no direction what-so-ever but has been open for 12 years (RJK). While some of the membership hit the nail on the head (AceBoizer, Br. John, Westcli, Talon, Andrew Tai, Sotunus, Bioness, Silmerion, Desolous and others, not going to name them off) the majority which came into the community since 2010 have not achieved an understanding of being a part of the community. Then you have members which have been a part of the community for so long, that they are starting to loose sight of the Jedi Path.

But then it was Opie's debate against Streen which got to me:

Opie Macleod wrote: 2.) There is a reason we don't do things like the beginning. There is a reason 1999 style of Jedi teaching is frowned upon and moved passed. It is the same reason we do not hang people, do not have segregated drinking foundations, and do not teach that the world is only a few thousand years old. It is called progress. It denotes our growth and evolution.

The old style of teaching is what produced the depth of thought and direction of many names which you will never see again in the community because they are out in the world making a difference in the lives of others around them. When orders lost names like Aslyn, Aaron Seeker, Brandon and a plethora of others, progress for forward movement within orders were lost. It became "anyone can call themselves" and "how do we make ourselves more elite" (like the above set of standardized training). Not "what was it that these guys did that made them great?".

So then I got into a class that had everyone analyzing No Child Left Behind (the worst idea in the history of American Education)...and also the worst idea in Jedi Education- because it does seek to standardize course work, and then you're given to an apprenticeship which may or may not produce any real results. So I returned to the Old Guard. The Old Guard, the ones that were successful, followed a lot of the basics outlined in the Jedi Pyramid (without actually having it there to give them direction). The course outline, if properly taken, matches up as well.

If the Jedi Pyramid were enforced here (hypothetically speaking) what I hope it would do, is get the order to start thinking a little bit more like the Catholic Church's take on initiating new members. Where the Catholic Church succeeds (in my opinion) is that someone coming into the church must first go through all of the training on what it means to be a Catholic before they are given the opportunity to decide for themselves if they will officially get recognized as a member of the Church. Where they fail is in giving that status automatically to anyone born of parents that are in the church, so long as they stick with it. :dry: This also happens to be the stance of the Orthodox Jewish community. It would also give direction within an apprenticeship.

Instead of giving someone sets of assignments or giving them specific missions (I've talked with some of the knights here, not all of them follow a strict outline in working with students- a couple of them are fairly unwavering though) the apprenticeship would become more homed in on the apprentice and helping them develop a training program of their own to achieve forward momentum to live the Jedi Path in it's entirety through a personal mission. An example, let's say that I had a student which felt his/her place in the world was to protect people from abuse. This student would have a few different options available, but we would first get down to "What exactly is it that you want to prevent from happening?". We start talking about it, and it becomes "I want to protect kids from being abused". Alright, police officer is somewhat out the window. This leaves you with a few different options: Victim Advocate, Detective/Investigator (which you sort of need police officer in order to get to it; unless you go P.I.), Assistant District Attorney and Child Protective Services are the big four for this one, but there are a couple of others I could think of. I would set the student out to determine exactly which of these avenues best matches their abilities and interests. So they come back and it turns out that what they want to do is become a Foster Parent. Alright, we have a direction. After assessing what it is that they know of being a Foster Parent it comes back that they just found that it gives them one-on-one time with abused kids. The next step is to have them go to DHS/DCS (or equivalent, I learned that there's a different acronym for it in Georgia than Tennessee yesterday) to find out what documentation and classes they will need to undergo in order to get registered as a foster parent. So then you look at the requirements for your state. In Tennessee, they are here . What we find is that you take 23 hours for a class. So they take the class, and we talk about it. Turns out 23 hours isn't enough (I've never taken the course, this is merely hypotehical). Based on this pyramid, we would delve more into the "Scholarly Art" and "Defense Art". I would have my apprentice start looking into American Psychological Association material regarding abused kids, conflict resolution, verbal judo (which goes hand-in-hand with conflict resolution) and psychological first aide. Once they get all of this done, and become a foster parent and let's even say that they have passed everything that I would state makes them a good Jedi in the process, so we get them promoted to Knight. Of course, this is where the real test comes in. How will you take your path to the next level? So we look back at the Pyramid, it has an ethic of "Duty to the People". They have achieved and continue to be shining examples of the other four "Core Ethics", but decide that maybe this one is lacking. As a knight, my former apprentice looks at this and thinks "What can I do to better improve how I live the path through this line?". So he/she goes back and starts talking with others about what it is he might give back to the community using his knowledge. It comes up that they might seek to teach other foster parents the things he/she learned and keep the knowledge up-to-date. From here, the knight gets involved in his/her local DHS/DCS/etc and talks with them about changing the 23 hour class to a class which is extended to 40 hours. He/She teams up with DHS/DCS/etc and perhaps a local psychologist or college to start development on a curriculum that can be implemented by the state (and who knows, it might even gain more national focus-I use state because I'm in America). It gets passed and now he/she is getting more parents informed on how to be the best foster parents possible. After review, of everything he/she has done (or is actively working towards depending on when the recognition wants to be awarded by the order) the knight gets promoted to Master within the guidelines of the order they hold the title "knight".

At the top three tiers of the "Pyramid" we have a total of 6 concepts which are meant to be achieved before you begin an apprenticeship (not in the literal sense, more in the sense that being an apprentice in medieval times meant you were training for a trade, so in order to get to the part where you are actually training for a trade within the Jedi Path). In tier four, you make a decision on how you will fulfill your life as a Jedi, if you wish to pursue it at all. Tier five is something which you decide to commit to when you state that you will become a Jedi. And finally tier six is made up of concepts which you decide to uphold and cultivate when you take the title of Jedi (and not just "Knight").

I think this is a good idea, and I personally believe in unification across the community. It would create a standard of training as well as community cohesion. From there it could go into advanced studies, wherein the site's specialities could come into it, such as the religious training of TOTJO or the metaphysical training in the Light Aspect of the Force Academy.

The thing I notice, alethea, is you are talking about basing careers off of jediism. More schooling, etc. I already have a career, which required a good deal of experience and education. What's more, jediism is synchretistic, last I checked, not all consuming. If one wants it to be all consuming, fine. That is their right. But I do not.

Short observation over lunch.

We could be mistaken, but I share Des's uptake. It is not that Jedi would not serve well these functions ... but as Des said, it seems as though one is making Jediism into a public service rather than just training Jedi to be "of service". Emergency and social service is fine, but what about artists ? or artisans ?

Wouldn't it be better to attract police, fire, medical, family service workers (or anybody really) to Jediism by being an unimposing spiritual group rather than attempting to replace them with 'Jedi-trained' personnel ? Just a thought ...

Tao Te Ching 56 :

Those who know don't talk.
Those who talk don't know. Close your mouth,
block off your senses,
blunt your sharpness,
untie your knots,
soften your glare,
settle your dust.
This is the primal identity. Be like the Tao.
It can't be approached or withdrawn from,
benefited or harmed,
honoured or brought into disgrace.
It gives itself up continually.
That is why it endures.

And please do not rely on some sort of seniority. Some of us have not been on Jedi web-sites for twenty years but may very well have been on this path for that long or more. It doesn't take a Jedi to perform heroic deeds, it only takes a hero ...

If you want feedback...I agree with much of it (by which I mean that much of it fits my personal understanding of my own Jedi path, but that I wouldn't assume that it works for everyone else necessarily), but this is the bit that irks me...because Jediism is my religion and for me religion is about belief and faith, not about strict rules as to what you must physically do.

I think I'm starting to sound like a broken record, hahaha :laugh:

Alethea Thompson wrote: Disciplines

All of these are disciplines must be cultivated in some way, you will note that they do not necessarily have to be separate concepts, and may often cross over into another discipline section.

Defense Art- In the fiction, Jedi were “guardians of peace” (“Jedi Code”, n.d.). As real life Jedi, we acknowledge that this means defending people. A “Defense Art” is not necessarily physical in nature, it can be through speech, writing, diplomacy or a number of other options which lead to an active method of curing the world of oppression. An example might be legislation which a government passes to build a better world, Martin Luther King speaking out against the evils of racism, or even the writings of prominent media personalities to bring about awareness of atrocities ongoing around the world. Combative defense arts, however, are also encouraged.

Physical Art- A physical art may be overlooked given the right circumstance (e.g. having a serious disability which prevents you from any movement). However, if a Jedi has some or all mobility, they should seek a physical art (Martial Arts, Yoga, Ballet, Weight Lifting, Running, etc) which keeps them them in shape and focuses on maintaining discipline of their bodies. Part of the physical art, which can be observed by all Jedi regardless of their mobility, is health. A Jedi should eat right, and maintain their health to the best of their ability (it is understandable if you have legitimate medical issues preventing “perfect health”).

Scholarly Art- A Jedi should seek out skills that provide benefit to them and the world around them. This could range from herbology to diplomatic training and work within the U.N. The search for knowledge is a precept of the Jedi core foundations and a Jedi never stops learning, seeking knowledge, and bettering their skills.

Spiritual Art- Meditation is a required part of the Spiritual Arts, however it does not have to stop there. Many in the Jedi Community have taken their Jedi Practice beyond meditation and learned to use other systems which interact with “the Force” to enhance their ability to help others. Some have taken the time to become shamans, hypnotherapists, priests and other such endeavors.

I make no secret of the fact that I'm an advocate of unification, or at least, building stronger, co-operative ties between different parts of the Jedi community.

But I don't think it could ever involve adhering to the same doctrine, because the term Jedi is used to mean so many different things...

You, and FA, are Force Realists...we (for the most part) are Jediists...they are two totally different things, and no-one can force them to be the same...

There is a degree of overlap and people can be members of both, but I see this much in the same way that I see the Jedi/Sith divide...it is possible to adhere to both, and they have similar elements, but they are still two different things...

Unification, for me, means all organisations under the 'Jedi' banner working together, supporting each other, and offering those on the Jedi path as many options as possible. Much like the separate aspects at LA, Jediism and Force Realism would be as 'aspects' of the 'Jedi' path, but would still maintain their unique individuality. Forcing everyone to adhere to the same doctrine and guidelines is not something that occurs in my vision of unification.

Only in being lived by the Tao can you be truly yourself.

Allow me to give you some prospective. Not everyone which are themselves are good people.

These phrases are indeed empty when you walk off the stage and realize that there are an abundance of people whom follow the Tao in their own way. They are whole, because they became partial, or straight because they became crooked, full because they became empty, etc. They decided that it was okay to live the simple calling of their inner convictions, rather than fight to surpass them. The Tao is not a codified concept, at the beginning of the Tao Te Ching, it speaks to the fact that you will never fully understand the Tao because "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao". Later on you read that "The Tao is empty; When utilized, it is not filled up; So deep! It seems to be the source of all things". Through this you have pedophiles, murders, rapist and so forth which follow their own calling of the Tao- because they become partial by discontinuing the fight against their fantasies. They took "crooked" and "empty" to it's extreme, without any effort. They "died" because they gave up on themselves, and were "reborn" to their desires. They gave up everything to gain what it is they sought most- to relish in the actions which have consequences should they ever get caught.

The Master, by residing in the Tao,
sets an example for all beings.
Because he doesn't display himself,
people can see his light.

Those referred to as Tao Masters only inspire those who seek their lifestyle. But humans are far more varied than that. They may respect the lifestyle a Taoist leads, but they will not necessarily be inspired by it. Everyone sees light where they want to see it, a Taoist Master may not even register on someone's radar when he/she is in a room-whereas a King (or Samuel L. Jackson,the Pope, etc) will command their attention.

Because he has nothing to prove,
people can trust his words.

Only if he/she is well informed on the matter which you are speaking.

Because he doesn't know who he is,
people recognise themselves in him.

That a Taoist Master would not know who they are is the main reason I could never trust them. In the Western World, understanding who you are and your role within the world is how you move forward. Those who take it to it's highest point are the ones which find themselves leading the world into it's future, bettering it for those at the lowest level. Do you honestly believe that by the time Ghandi took the mantle to fight for a cause that he did not know who himself? Or Martin Luther King, Jr.? George Washington? Swami Vivekananda? Mohammad? Mother Teresa? (the list continues)

Because he has no goal in mind,
everything he does succeeds.

I have a goal to learn from everything, because I have this goal in mind, everything I do succeeds. With no goals in mind, you neither fail nor succeed, you are simply making actions with no direction. And to be completely honest, that can prove to be highly detrimental given the right circumstances.

These words are empty, because they have no context. They are cookie-cutter statements/quotes which are meant to get you thinking. As illustrated above, you can easily take it in the completely wrong direction- and oftentimes people do. It's one of the main reasons I'm very much against the idea of "There is no emotion, there is peace" and consider "Emotion, yet peace" to be the superior line within the Jedi Code. But even the code is empty unless you are given an understanding of what it means to live by it. Which, in the cannon, I feel is why the code was redone to:

Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy.
Jedi use their powers to defend and protect, never to attack others.
Jedi respect all life, in any form.
Jedi serve others, rather than rule over them, for the good of the galaxy.
Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Code)

I want to make a clarification on exactly what that means, V-Tog. The current membership on the Light Council are all Jedi (if that changes, it will be in whether or not we admit Moor as a Knight, which is being discussed). When you look at what it means to call Force Academy "Force Realists", is is that we happen to share a board with Sith, Krath, Shadow, (now) Mandolorian, and in the future hopefully other schools of thought. Where you believe that members can be within both, but do not have to be is what many seem to find in disconnect. It's not a matter of whether you are one or the other, or potentially both. The definition (which was written over a year ago for clarification to those which did not fully understand it) is as follows:

Force Re-al-ist (noun) \'fors 'rē-ə-l-ist\
A person who actively follows and practices a philosophy and/or religion which was inspired by the Star Wars Universe.

It does not actually include someone believing in "the Force" (a common misnomer), all it requires is that you follow Jedi, Baran Do, Sith, Krath, or any other number of philosophies/religions which can spring forth from the Star Wars Universe.

So when I make the statement that ToTJO may as well call themselves Force Realists order, it isn't because it has few Jedi in it, but because you have more than Jedi. The approach which Jestor takes to being a Jedi is not the same approach taken by the curriculum set up in the initiates program.

Now you mention that having the same doctrine would end up being a detriment. Here is why I disagree: Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism. I'm sure I could come up with more, but these are the big three. Each one has a wide variety of what it is that they believe and how to take things to the next level. In this respect, Real Jedi Knights could choose to be strictly a Physical Defense Art order, because they find that this is the best way of becoming a Jedi. While Mi-Zhe Fu and I completely disagree on this point, it does not preclude him from taking it that direction. However, with this as a loose basis (if he and RJK agreed with the document) would keep him from making the statement that only his order teaches the Jedi Path (and trust me, I've been down a similar road with him in the past....:dry: ). The same would be true of ToTJO.

Here's why I believe it will be controversial here. When I wrote the document, I had all of the orders in mind. Arguments which took place here, between Moor and myself, and then Nidan and myself, weighed heavily on how I wrote the Disciplines area. But what I'm worried about getting passed the team here is that it will be looked at as something which has no merit in it. That it would get written off because it did not originate from someone within the actual clergy/hierarchy.

Give me a second, I'll get to the rest of you, that's a lot to read over! lol.

Desolous, I had actually considered using you as my model. But I didn't want to directly call you out for it. So I made up a model.

Here's the thing, with you, if I were Akkarin, I wouldn't need to find focus on the Scholarly or Defense Arts with you. As you are a veteran, and appear (from your picture) to be in impeccable shape, I don't believe there really needs to be any emphasis on the physical art either. This leaves the spiritual art. Now I don't know you spiritually, so I can't say whether or not you meet the requirements for it, or if you feel you have conquered the three major points in tier three. You seem well balanced in the second and sixth tier. I have no idea where you stand on the first tier, but I would guess that you already know enough about it to not really need much focus on it. That leaves spiritual art. For me, I think the only assignment I would give you to assess exactly where you stand on the path would be to do a good review (might take a few weeks or so) and then if you passed the Spiritual area, then I would recommend you for knighthood (after the initiates program...this is the largest key that I'm going to hit on here). After that, depending on what the process is (an example would be that at the FA, after you have served for 6 months as a knight you can be reviewed for masterhood, does not necessarily mean you'll get it after 6 months, but you get my point. The old way of looking at it was that you had to train someone to knight and then you could be reviewed), you would be eligible for review of master.

Now onto Alexandre: Believe it or not, with the right direction an artisan could easily fit the bill. It all depends on how you use your art to help others. It could even be considered a Defense Art. A few examples of what I mean (looking at the art):

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-racist-art-of-michael-dantuono

http://afroeuro.org/magazine/?p=5136

http://www.lhsepic.com/speaking-out-against-rape-two-girls-voice-their-experiences/

http://www.demotix.com/news/1476514/protest-march-held-against-rape-11-year-old-girl#media-1476502

If your passion is art, then a Jedi could easily seek a method of using art to fulfill the role of "Duty to the People". They would improve their art through different methods (photography might get you looking more on Deviant Art and seeking advice in how to improve your editing or what resolution you should use etc). For the illustrative artist, it would take practice and perhaps looking at others that are working to speak out on the same things you feel concerned enough to take part in. An actor/actress may improve themselves so that they can win placement on a movie that gains more public attention to why it's not wrong to allow gays in the public scene.