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    • What do you get out of magic/k? (Last post by Alexandre Orion)
    • I think it was Isaac Bonewits who schematised the relationships of science, art, religion and magic. These can be illustrated (sens large, bien entendu !) as : * science - practical means to practical ends * art - practical means to impractical ends * religion - impractical means to impractical ends * magick - impractical means to practical ends Now, what that means to me is that for everything that we do, there is some action on the "meta-" level that exceeds the immediate scope of whatever it is we are wanting to be doing. This is true from everything from the most elaborate magickal rite to simply doing the laundry. Thus intention is important (albeit it is strange to imagine someone doing laundry maliciously :P ). We already admit pretty readily that nothing is really separate from anything else. There is a sort of unity which reigns, that was there before everything and that everything arises from and returns to, an everything that is ubiquitous, mysterious and that we can't get our heads around very well. We can however be aware of it. And it is this awareness that can be a formidable strength to all of these various aspects of mind. Moreover, one doesn't necessarily need choose ; they are all going on at once, even if we think that we have rationally rejected one or another. People like to regard themselves as rational, reasonable folk and thus would boast of subscribing to the science mind more than any of the others - for practitioners of magick, that is the identification, for an artist, art and for a traditional cleric, religion. Then they get all sorts of steamed when one implies that their methods are impractical ... go figure ! :S Anyway, let's get back to what we were saying about the "meta-" aspects of everything. Awareness of what influences our intent and action ensuing thereof may have beyond the practice by whatever means it entails is to bring an equal awareness to that unity - that vast and magnificent and terrifying everything - that we already eagerly accept. Therefore, in keeping with the notion that for any and every task there is a cascade of causal possibilities, it is that awareness of the variables outside of what we can immediately take into account (and there are many !) that makes marvellous things out of will. To de-mystify Bonewits' schematic, I see 'practical means' as the variables we can take into account and the immediate manipulation (again, in its positive sense) of the environment, and 'practical ends' as that about which we can be reasonably certain will result if our assessment of the practical means was accurate. 'Impractical means' would therefore be those which do not have a direct causal link to the result, but are those actions which access or bring about the circumstances whereby the desired result can most favourably arise. 'Impractical ends' I understand as representations of things, events or conditions, insubstantial, yet may occasion both practical and impractical means thereafter. But then, I'm just a priest, and not much of a magician, so what the hell would I know ? I don't even really like to do the laundry either ... :unsure: ... so, really, all I expect to get magically : clean laundry. :cheer:
    • Jedi creed (doubt and faith) (Last post by Alexandre Orion)
    • doubt~faith : coincidentia oppositorum : faith~doubt This is another of those instances where one implies the other ; if you have one, you have both. The question is how much balance we can bring to them ... We get pretty wrapped up in to dichotomous thinking which leads to a sort of rational manicheism whereby one is lead to believe that herein is a conflict in which one is good, the other bad and one (preferably the good) must defeat the other. This is not really the case : we need both doubt and faith in appropriate measure (but let's not try to actually measure them). Alan generously points out that there are variant kinds of doubt. This is true. Whereas methodical doubt is very practical and useful, the scientific method relies upon it and one would not be able to use discernment or discrimination without it, there is also the doubt that arises where there has been no - or very badly done - discernment nor discrimination (irrational fear). Doubt is the receptacle into which faith can be poured, yet as with pouring a cup of tea where there is no cup, free flowing faith without a degree of doubt to receive it makes a mess. Whereby irrational doubts are easily recognisable as nearly paralysing handicap, so is irrational faith. Nevertheless, they must go together as a relationship of coincidentia oppositorum. Reason cannot reason its own reasonableness ; we cannot through logic itself arrive at the conclusion that logic is sufficient. We intuit that. Since we must doubt our certainties and yet at the same time have faith in our capacity to explore and manipulate (manipulate in its positive sense : to be able to use) our environment, then re-doubt how we decide to use it, to what ends and so forth, we see that we need both ... Ergo, 'Where there is doubt, (I shall bring) faith ;' then, suggests that I, as an instrument of peace, come to bring these into balance -- the balance in situational appropriateness. An example : my friends have enjoyed two or three lovely bottles of wine and in the resulting gaiety, decide what a fine thing it would be to go down to the river and have a swim. I must dissuade them from doing something quite dangerous by bringing enough doubt where there is too much faith ... Yet, I do this from faith.
    • The Code(s) (Last post by Reacher)
    • I don't worry too much over either. I try not to focus on the grammar and literal implications of each, but what they point us toward. That said, whichever is the clearer guidepost - follow. Just remember to attend the path, not the post.
    • FAQ Update (Last post by Akkarin)
    • Apprenticeship: Quote: 9. What does apprenticeship involve? An Apprentice is an Initiate who has been taken on by a current Teaching Master and is receiving personal teaching and guidance. The Teaching Master will teach that person until Knighthood. The minimum time for training is 6 months. The Council will organize a knighting ceremony Once the apprentice has completed the A.Div a and is considered ready by their teaching master. An initiate must be at least 16 years old before being considered for apprenticeship. Quote: 9. What does apprenticeship involve? An Apprentice is an Initiate who has been taken on by a current Teaching Master and is receiving personal teaching and guidance. The Teaching Master will teach that person until Knighthood. The minimum time for training is 6 months. Once the apprentice has completed the A.Div a and is considered ready by their teaching master they will be interviewed by a member of the Council and if the interview is successful a ceremony will be organised to officially promote them to the rank of Knight. An initiate must be at least 16 years old before being considered for apprenticeship. Read more Instances of FaQ were changed to FAQ (correct abbreviation) Multiple minor stylistic changes at the beginning of the document.
    • Recurring Dreams (Last post by Streen)
    • I'm not sure I have recurring dreams, but I do have recurring themes. Like not being able to find a bathroom, missing my bus, being late for a class, can't remember my locker combination... I'm not a high school student, but the impression of it has dug deep into my subconscious.
    • Pathfinder (D&D) Tabletop Campaign (Last post by Akkarin)
    • Quote: As these type games are very "hero adventure-esqe", I hope that the quandaries and difficult decisions are discussed sidebar (think, what would a Jedi do? what would a Dark Jedi do, what would a [fictional] Sith do)... Jestor you should play role-playing games...
    • Yoga (Last post by Adder)
    • Quote: Quote: Contemporary Yoga might have taken a lot of the poses and used them for flexibility and exercise uses, where a hold might relieve the tension more effectively then a moment in movement into and out of a stretched position. That's my thoughts on it. Some positions I see in videos etc are held, but in classes they are all held. I wonder if perhaps it is a country thing, I am in the UK for classes but all videos I see are American. Cultural difference in interpretation maybe? Probably everyone is a bit different. Video's might be instructional and therefore hold positions a bit longer to demonstrate better for the audience. Also some people do Yoga as a calisthenics type of exercise which seem not to hold at all, almost like a cardio exercise banging out reps of full range motion!! For introductory Yoga it seems usual to approach a position and not reach it due to inflexibility, and then hold it a bit to help stretch out the muscles, fascias, ligaments etc as a way to get better at Yoga and improve flexibility more generally. I think there are benefits to that, as sometimes pain can be associated to imbalances in different muscles groups or stress etc. It is not my area though, its just a hobby my partner 'puts me through' occasionally. :S :)
    • Down's Syndrome... (Last post by tzb)
    • Quote: Seems strange that the same person can believe these three things: -abortion is a right -aborting babies just because they're different is a wrong -You don't do things like me and I don't like your ways: go away! I don't think that's strange (or accurate of any view expressed here, but whatever). To me it suggests your initial assertion Quote: Of all the abortions people can have, you can categorize them in two groups: - Because I don't want it (Or now's not the right time)or because it's my body and I do what I want (yet somehow people aren't quite as keen when it comes to chopping their own legs off: these are actual parts of their body) - Because there's something wrong with the baby or pregnancy. is incorrect. Quote: just like when it comes to your limbs, the one that makes sense to remove is the one with the disease. A poor choice of straw man given most people will do whatever possible to keep a limb, diseased or not.
    • Live Service - Thursday 28th August - 19 UTC (Last post by Connor L.)
    • Hi all! I will be holding a live service on the 28th at 19UTC. To find out what your time will be: The topic is going to be: Discipline in the face of Chaos. [The Complexity of Cause and Effect]

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